Teacher Pay Increases (2 Viewers)

[400miles]

"Actually - I am a Trained Science teacher! Tought in a Large sydney public High School for only 1 year after leaving Teachers College. Dropped that quick smart once I discovered all the sh*t going on."
The kind of shit that underpaid teachers have to put up with every day.

 

[Ribbon]

the ex teacher who replied is a male, and I now know the person who I quoted first is a) not you, and b) male also... sorry I won't bother addressing your post because I will just be re-hashing my point of view, which I think I have already made pretty clear

I do just want to point out though, that the ex teacher did say (well this is how I would interpret it) that they deserve 40-50k because they put up with alot of shit, but not much more than that, because they are not expected to work as hard as other proffessions. He also did say that alot of teachers work very hard, but so does a similar proportion of workers in other fields, who, like teachers, only get paid the award/set amount regardless...

 

[400miles]

the ex teacher who replied is a male, and I now know the person who I quoted first is a) not you, and b) male also... sorry I won't bother addressing your post because I will just be re-hashing my point of view, which I think I have already made pretty clear

I think everyone's point of view is extremely clear.

I do just want to point out though, that the ex teacher did say (well this is how I would interpret it) that they deserve 40-50k because they put up with alot of shit, but not much more than that, because they are not expected to work as hard as other proffessions.

Not expected to work as hard? That's a bit rich. Who is it that's expecting them or not expecting them to work as hard? I'm sure everyone's expecting them to work as hard as they can at their job.

He also did say that alot of teachers work very hard, but so does a similar proportion of workers in other fields, who, like teachers, only get paid the award/set amount regardless...

And perhaps those professions deserve a payrise too, I'm not sure..the point is I'm not trying to compare. I think there's a heap of professions that deserve payrises and teachers are one of them.

 

[snapperhead]

The pay rate issue for the catholic schools was over executive teachers (although why they are awarded a higher rate to teach catholic 'values' in addition to the standard responsibilties is beyond me... Are the secular values of the state schools not as important?).

have not read the whole thread..yes I know I should have but just to point out that the role of principal is different between systems....non-public principals have a lot more responsibility thatn their state counterparts...almost in the same position as a CEO whereas state principals are managers (just to use some bad analogies).... As for actual pay rates, its all negiotiated so if you going to pass blame for inequality, blame the unions and the commission. Not our fault our union (the IEU) looks after us!!

 

[Generator]

have not read the whole thread..yes I know I should have but just to point out that the role of principal is different between systems....non-public principals have a lot more responsibility thatn their state counterparts...almost in the same position as a CEO whereas state principals are managers (just to use some bad analogies).... As for actual pay rates, its all negiotiated so if you going to pass blame for inequality, blame the unions and the commission. Not our fault our union (the IEU) looks after us!!

I did not even know that the Catholic system operated in a slightly different manner to the state system till a few weeks ago (a few herald articles and your post in the non-school forum ). I had always thought that both were just as centralised.
It seems as though it is a very complex issue... I can understand that if the executives in the state system are to be at (or near) the rate of pay of those in the catholic system then they should face the similar working conditions, but then the federation noted the importance of the transfer system for getting teachers out to rural and disadvantaged areas (amongst other things)... Actually, how does the catholic system manage such problems? (if you do not mind the question?)

 

[snapperhead]

I did not even know that the Catholic system operated in a slightly different manner to the state system till a few weeks ago (a few herald articles and your post in the non-school forum ). I had always thought that both were just as centralised.
It seems as though it is a very complex issue... I can understand that if the executives in the state system are to be at (or near) the rate of pay of those in the catholic system then they should face the similar working conditions, but then the federation noted the importance of the transfer system for getting teachers out to rural and disadvantaged areas (amongst other things)... Actually, how does the catholic system manage such problems? (if you do not mind the question?)

not to sure about the transfer thing as the Catholic system doesnt work that way ie each school is virtually a separate entity (or business) with a central "overseeing" body (usually the Catholic Education Office of which there is one in each diocese)...Im guessing this is probably the only justification for the "private school" tag that we are stuck with (BTW I really dislike the term as it lumps us in with Independant schools which Catholic schools ain't!!)..... but based upon my experience, there isnt any real hassles of getting teachers out to non-govt schools in the country (just as 'city schools' dont have the same problems either).
Just on the whole pay between systems thing..having worked in two of the three education systems in NSW (and I start in the third next term), working conditions and expectations are diferrent between govt and non-govt sectors (*not saying that one has better teachers or harder working teachers or that state teachers are bludgers*) but the expectations are different hence the variation in pay (ie we have to do more eg admin, duties, extras etc) hence the variation in pay. But Im taking a pay cut by moving into the independant sector so go figure.....
(To all) please dont villify or taint what ever system you 'dont support' as most of what I have read here on this board is based upon ignorance and propaganda or bad experience. To cut it short, as a profession, we are not paid enough in line with our experience, training and workload (and dont get me started on the cost of living/inflation stuff). 25% in based upon what we should have been paid over 20 odd years inline with inflation. Its not that we are asking any more that what we were promised....as for the figures quoted about what non-state schools get, those figures always have teachers salaries in them, not just the schools operating budgets (let alone the mixups between state and federal ie who pays what and that it isnt fair. Yes, there are dodgy teachers (and schools) out there but 99% of all the teachers I have ever meet and worked with (both govt and non govt) bust their butts everyday for *their* students........ its just politics that ruins it for us (that and a**hole kids who think the world owes them everything...)
Just my two cents worth based upon 11 years of "real experience"....

 

[400miles]

if the levels of professionalism were lifted i would support a pay rise. Dont even start to deny that there are teahcers out there that do no more than babysit.

I never did deny that... But you can't deny there's a lot of teachers who work a lot bloody harder than they have to. And that's why I believe they deserve a pay rise. I've had first hand experience of it every day, and I'm not talking about my parents.

It would not be fair on teachers who work hard to give these people a pay rise.

I think the teachers who work hard won't really care that the worser teachers get a pay rise, as long as the good teachers get one... which they did...

 

[nick1048]

25% is way too much... they are asking for a quarter of their pay in addition to their salary. They work 6 hour days, have equal holidays as kids, comfortable working conditions. Who are they trying to kid :S?

 

[400miles]

No one. They're not trying to kid people, they're just asking people to wake up and see the reality.

Comfortable working conditions? Says who? A room full of 30 kids isn't comfortable...

 

[nick1048]

its better than wakin @ 5 in the morning to pick orders all day...

 

[*girl04*]

ummmm basically most teachers aint worth shit.

we have all been to scoool and most teachers are nothing more than societies drop outs too lazy to work a real job.

Teaching is little mroe than readin a fuckign boook and setting a few tests.

They are some of the laziest most over rated peices of shit in the community.

Yeah education is important..but taking into acocount all the holidays etc etc....i think they should count themselves lucky to get watever they are geting atm.

yeah but what about proper teachers you know the kind? the teachers that actually care about you, who set you fun AND educational work to do in class and who spend heaps of time helping you if you dint understand something. Im talking about the teachers who dont just chuck you a textbook. T

 

[*girl04*]

the reason why they're asking for 25% is cos in the past teaching salaries haven't risen in line with inflation. i read somewhere that in the 70s teachers were paid really well compared to other uni graduates, but then pay didn't really increase.

there's gonna be a teacher shortage soon when current teachers retire, so pay rises will do a lot to encourage others to enter it.

my mum used to teach in the public school system and she'd have to get up really early to do playground duty and a lot of the time she had to mediate arguments between psychotic parents, not only psychotic students. so teachers do deserve a hefty pay rise.

yeah but we dont want a whole lot of new generation teachers, only teaching for money. WHY DONT we just have know teachers and buy textbooks.

 

[Sarah168]

Yeah, like haggling

If something is $50, you suggest something ridiculous like $20, hoping they will settle for $30 or $40

 

[400miles]

its better than wakin @ 5 in the morning to pick orders all day...

Your opinion.
But waking up at five in the morning (which my dad has to do anyway) to pick up orders all day is better than teh emotional strain of adolescent children which you're in charge of looking after.

We could play this game all day. it's why I kept saying to Asqy that you can't compare.

 

[Ziff]

I'd understand teachers getting paid more in a dictatorship or totalitarian regime because they have to indoctrinate the youth with propaganda but in a democracy their job isn't nearly as important - they don't have to maintain social order - merely throw crap at them from a syllabus. Then again, kids under a totalitarian regime would be a lot better behaved

 

[christ_ine]

Heh, they deserve a pay rise - fair and square.

The work they make uni students studying teaching do to prepare for practical is difficult enough - let alone what these teachers do day after day. Sure, they get however many weeks holidays, but they've got a hell of a lot of responsibility. I'm not saying that other occupations don't have that same level, or more, responsibility - but we're talking about the education of students.

 

[400miles]

You have to compare in order to get the value of the work.

If you cant stand 30 kids then why are you a teacher? You are older and smarter than them (well i hope so) you can handle them.

Just because you can do your job well (just because you CAN stand 30 kids) doesn't mean you aren't entitled to payrise. Of course if you can't handle the kids you shouldn't be a teacher. But it doesn't mean the teachers that can handle them (especially the ones that handle them really well) aren't entitled to a payrise.

 

[craz]

Teachers deserve a pay rise. Look how little some of them get paid! Gees and to think that I want to become a teacher looking after some of you guys (future HSC er's and others...) They really are promoting - hey teaching is going up at uni, the HECS is staying the same it really shows there is a big need for it.

 

[Libra Swords]

Okay.....this is how I see it......

Teachers are the greatest people I have met, excluding the slackers.
I find that teachers do deserve more than any other profession out there!
They not only educate you and prepare you for the future, they are also
great people to look up to. They work hard and long hours and prepare
for the next day to teach. They are also the foundations of life.

Teaching is learning and learning is teaching. Teaching is life and you will
see it everywhere you go and in everything you expreience. You will never
stop learning. The day you stop learning is when you have died.

Teachers are our example and way to give. You teach someone you are giving
more than just knowledge.....you are giving love and advice and then that
love and advice will pass on to others as well. The Best thing about teaching
is that the more you teach the more you learn and in return understand.

Teachers should be paid thousands more! They give you knowledge, love,
wisdom, understanding, and example. (At least the teachers who care.)
Those are the teachers you will never forget and those are the teachers that
make a difference in your life.

The Lawyers will rip you off and lie to you. Doctors will do the same and prescribe
wrong medicine to have you keep coming back. Business people only care about
themselves. Many other professions lack of tricks and trade, those are the ones
I would if I were you should be careful in choosing. Teachers are harmless.
If there's a teacher who is not instructing the way you like, you can just change
classes. But when a Lawyer promises you upon a case and does not deliver,
you can change lawyers, but you just lost yourself a big chunck of money.

Teachers deserve more money than any other profession.

 

[Libra Swords]

Its obvious that you need a teacher!

Teachers deserve more for they shape our future.

By-the-way......I think that they should pay the great teachers more,
for they have influenced many lives. The ones that arn't so great should
take a smaller share or teach another subject that they're better at.