The Beijing Olympics (1 Viewer)
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Aralia
Mieow...
Re: Boycott of Olympics
There have never been human rights abuses - it's all carefully constructed so that people would believe in it, for Tibet to argue for their ultimate goal - independence. Politics and religion shouldn't mix in the first place anyway. I'm really ashamed of the twisted Buddhism in Tibet.
China's too big and the only way to ensure peace is to restrain some extreme freedom of speech such as wanting independence and splitting up the country, otherwise there'd be a constant war and never peace. We're not active, but only reactive, in our strikes. Besides, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s...China couldn't have abused Tibet. Far out, we're trying to get the country organized and rebuilt after the war! The west part was really poor then and we'd sent goods over. What have they done for us, then, now they claim to be powerful and protesting?!
Tibet's always been a part of China - so had Mongolia, but we'd already lost that, but they're barren land now anyway. Maybe if we could've kept it...they'd be thriving too. We're trying to get into Tibet now, building rails and airports, etc so that the rest of China and the world can get to know the place better. We're ceasing their privacy. It's our land and our right to visit it. We're not invading their so-called pure air. It's time for some discipline, at last.
There have never been human rights abuses - it's all carefully constructed so that people would believe in it, for Tibet to argue for their ultimate goal - independence. Politics and religion shouldn't mix in the first place anyway. I'm really ashamed of the twisted Buddhism in Tibet.
China's too big and the only way to ensure peace is to restrain some extreme freedom of speech such as wanting independence and splitting up the country, otherwise there'd be a constant war and never peace. We're not active, but only reactive, in our strikes. Besides, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s...China couldn't have abused Tibet. Far out, we're trying to get the country organized and rebuilt after the war! The west part was really poor then and we'd sent goods over. What have they done for us, then, now they claim to be powerful and protesting?!
Tibet's always been a part of China - so had Mongolia, but we'd already lost that, but they're barren land now anyway. Maybe if we could've kept it...they'd be thriving too. We're trying to get into Tibet now, building rails and airports, etc so that the rest of China and the world can get to know the place better. We're ceasing their privacy. It's our land and our right to visit it. We're not invading their so-called pure air. It's time for some discipline, at last.
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Aralia
Mieow...
Re: Boycott of Olympics
Sure I do.
The West has a different criteria when judging human rights abuses. China's far too big to adhere to those criterias and she needs a more strict rule, such as less freedom in speech. We've managed well consideirng how far we've come in the last 3 decades. Tibet's just gripped the Western notion of human rights really well and knows how to betray the country by claiming to have been abused according to those rules.
P.s. Psychopath? I'll try bagging out Australia's swimmers, and then I'll label so many ppl as psychopaths...People are all patriotic when they're put to the test, man.
P.p.s. I'm 5'4'', almost 5'5'', Asian chick, long black hair to the waist. Average to pretty-looking.
P.p.p.s. What about the hospital systems here?! I was in hospital a year ago and I was told absolutely nothing. Sport is sport, politics is politics. What gives people the right to say that China cannot host the Games because of the supposed issues?! Give the country a chance to speak, when she's ready.
Sure I do.
The West has a different criteria when judging human rights abuses. China's far too big to adhere to those criterias and she needs a more strict rule, such as less freedom in speech. We've managed well consideirng how far we've come in the last 3 decades. Tibet's just gripped the Western notion of human rights really well and knows how to betray the country by claiming to have been abused according to those rules.
P.s. Psychopath? I'll try bagging out Australia's swimmers, and then I'll label so many ppl as psychopaths...People are all patriotic when they're put to the test, man.
P.p.s. I'm 5'4'', almost 5'5'', Asian chick, long black hair to the waist. Average to pretty-looking.
P.p.p.s. What about the hospital systems here?! I was in hospital a year ago and I was told absolutely nothing. Sport is sport, politics is politics. What gives people the right to say that China cannot host the Games because of the supposed issues?! Give the country a chance to speak, when she's ready.
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Slidey
But pieces of what?
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Re: Boycott of Olympics
OK, can you please outline these "different criteria" China has for what's technically a fundamental ideal?
And don't even bother using that "China is too big" garbage. Take a big look at India, Aralia. They're just as big, and they're far freer and have a much better human rights record - and they too have come a long way in 3 decades.
I mean, you use the claim "China is too big" as a justification for human rights abuse - yet you think it is wrong for people to want to be independent, and indeed that China should get even BIGGER (id est Taiwan)... please explain.
Your later points:
1) I don't give a rats arse about Australia's swimmers. It seems Australians are different to the Chinese. If there is a problem with our country, we point it out and rant about it and eventually fix it, instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet. Patriotism shouldn't mean blindness.
2) That's fascinating. I'm 3', my skin is blue and I have a long white beard...
3) I don't know what point you're trying to make, but our hospitals are genuinely more than adequate. Healthcare in this country is excellent. One of the only problems is a doctor/nurse skill shortage.
4) Yeah I don't really care about the games. I was disgusted with China's human rights records a few years ago. I didn't even consider that the games would give these issues coverage, but I'm glad it has. To clarify: I'm not disgusted with the Chinese people, I am with their government.
OK, can you please outline these "different criteria" China has for what's technically a fundamental ideal?
And don't even bother using that "China is too big" garbage. Take a big look at India, Aralia. They're just as big, and they're far freer and have a much better human rights record - and they too have come a long way in 3 decades.
I mean, you use the claim "China is too big" as a justification for human rights abuse - yet you think it is wrong for people to want to be independent, and indeed that China should get even BIGGER (id est Taiwan)... please explain.
Your later points:
1) I don't give a rats arse about Australia's swimmers. It seems Australians are different to the Chinese. If there is a problem with our country, we point it out and rant about it and eventually fix it, instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet. Patriotism shouldn't mean blindness.
2) That's fascinating. I'm 3', my skin is blue and I have a long white beard...
3) I don't know what point you're trying to make, but our hospitals are genuinely more than adequate. Healthcare in this country is excellent. One of the only problems is a doctor/nurse skill shortage.
4) Yeah I don't really care about the games. I was disgusted with China's human rights records a few years ago. I didn't even consider that the games would give these issues coverage, but I'm glad it has. To clarify: I'm not disgusted with the Chinese people, I am with their government.
Nebuchanezzar
Banned
Re: Boycott of Olympics
Aralia is a product of evil Chinese mind conditioning. Go back to Eurasia!
Aralia is a product of evil Chinese mind conditioning. Go back to Eurasia!
Re: Boycott of Olympics
Freedom (of speech and otherwise) and silencing of political opponents: It is not as bad as those who've never set foot in China imagine. In private, people can say what they like. In public, they can also say what they like. The limits are on organisations that have an ulterior political agenda to subvert the national polity (these organisations often being funded by the CIA).
Torture: Please cite specific examples where torture was committed.
Censorship: Yes it happens. But some degree of censorship is exercised by every government. In addition, media oligopolies tend to engage in strong self-censorship (for instance try and post a left-wing comment in "The Australian"). Australian media for instance is strongly biased against China. In one sense this is even more dangerous because people regard what they're fed by the media as the "truth" simply because they live in a democracy.
Strong class division: Not relaly a human rights abuse. You can't have both no class division and a transition to the market economy. On the one hand you refer to "Communist" China, on the other hand you complain about its class division, so which is it>?
excessive force: I'm guessing that this is a reference to the Tiananmen incident. Part of the reason why China did not send in the military to crush the violent tibetan protest is that they've learned from the mistakes of tiananmen. That is significant as it shows that China no longer engages in the practice. Also see Kent State Massacre.
religious tolerance: The practice of the Abrahamic religions is permitted. falun gong is not a religion. It's a part-cult, part embarrassing-China organisation.
A few particular circumstances to consider: China is a developing nation that relies on government efficacy and action (in contrast to due process and rule of law). No doubt emphasis on the latter will increase as its economy matures past take-off. Asian culture generally values national polity and social objectives higher than pursuit of individual objectives. That is why, for instance Singapore (despite being a developed nation) has the highest capital punishment rate in the world, and why south east asian countries tend to enact harsh punishments for drug offences.
No the point is that those who make allegations should back up those allegations with evidence.Schroedinger said:
Identifying human rights abuses is a relative exercise because there are incidences of these "abuses" in practically every country, including Australia, as the Stolen Generation and detained refugees for instance will attest. The question is whether the incidences of human rights abuses in the country in question, given the particular circumstances of that country, are far too high. If the country in question is China, I would answer no to the question.slidey said:
Freedom (of speech and otherwise) and silencing of political opponents: It is not as bad as those who've never set foot in China imagine. In private, people can say what they like. In public, they can also say what they like. The limits are on organisations that have an ulterior political agenda to subvert the national polity (these organisations often being funded by the CIA).
Torture: Please cite specific examples where torture was committed.
Censorship: Yes it happens. But some degree of censorship is exercised by every government. In addition, media oligopolies tend to engage in strong self-censorship (for instance try and post a left-wing comment in "The Australian"). Australian media for instance is strongly biased against China. In one sense this is even more dangerous because people regard what they're fed by the media as the "truth" simply because they live in a democracy.
Strong class division: Not relaly a human rights abuse. You can't have both no class division and a transition to the market economy. On the one hand you refer to "Communist" China, on the other hand you complain about its class division, so which is it>?
excessive force: I'm guessing that this is a reference to the Tiananmen incident. Part of the reason why China did not send in the military to crush the violent tibetan protest is that they've learned from the mistakes of tiananmen. That is significant as it shows that China no longer engages in the practice. Also see Kent State Massacre.
religious tolerance: The practice of the Abrahamic religions is permitted. falun gong is not a religion. It's a part-cult, part embarrassing-China organisation.
A few particular circumstances to consider: China is a developing nation that relies on government efficacy and action (in contrast to due process and rule of law). No doubt emphasis on the latter will increase as its economy matures past take-off. Asian culture generally values national polity and social objectives higher than pursuit of individual objectives. That is why, for instance Singapore (despite being a developed nation) has the highest capital punishment rate in the world, and why south east asian countries tend to enact harsh punishments for drug offences.
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wendus
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the western view of the issue is extremely biased. people actually don't know what's going on in tibet. just take a look at the chinese perspective of this issue. those student demonstrators in sydney the other week showed the world what was really going on. china does not wish to inflict any form of violence on its own people. why is this so hard to understand? it is just ridiculous.
australia should not boycott the olympics because of this. the olympics are about all the world's nations coming together to compete. why should something like this affect it? it is a completely separate issue, and should be dealt with separately.
australia should not boycott the olympics because of this. the olympics are about all the world's nations coming together to compete. why should something like this affect it? it is a completely separate issue, and should be dealt with separately.
Aralia
Mieow...
Ha, you guys are just the product, wait, not even the product, but the by-product of extremely biased western reporting plus envy and what-not.
Don't even try to use psychological jargon, mate - Mind conditioning?! Seriously. Classical conditioning, that's more like it...and Eurasia doesn't even really exist, it's a nationality. DON'T YOU DARE USE PERSONAL INSULTS.
Tibet's just like an adolescent now. We've looked after them while they were young and all. It's just going into rebellion. Here's an example: My dad used to get a bit aggro at me for not studying for selective high school for the best education possible. I had no weekends since I had to learn English - I'd almost past the critical period...so I went and told a teacher who'd told the DOCS, which I didn't want. I just wanted to vent. Alright, so they got involved and I was nearly fostered out. The only difference is that Tibet doesn't just want to vent. They want to split us and thus destroy the country. I've to admit - they've timed well in their rebellion.
I wasn't abused and Tibet's part of China. How can a parent hurt a child?! We'd want the best for them, to care for that part of the country, to build it and make it as advanced as the rest, yet they've strayed...and went off to tell the world about it. Like my dad's good intentions, the government's have been convered up.
What the DOCS and the world will never understand is that there're cultural differences and what's "wrong" in this country may be just encouraging in another and every nation has its right in choosing how to rule - e.g. I'd always thought that Muslim women had no human rights. I've picked up English really well, got to learn 2 other languages plus my mother tongue and I simply refuse to believe that the government would "hurt" a part of its own country without being brought to it (Like my dad andd like I was angered and thus insulted you guys and calling you by-products). Tibet's the one who's rebelled in the first place...and if you're a part of a country, then there're limits. If they want something drastically different and they're under our rule, bad luck. We're not high Machiavellians who step all over people to get what they want, we just wish for some peace and unity.
Time will tell everything. Just wait.
Innocent until proven guilty, if you like.
Don't even try to use psychological jargon, mate - Mind conditioning?! Seriously. Classical conditioning, that's more like it...and Eurasia doesn't even really exist, it's a nationality. DON'T YOU DARE USE PERSONAL INSULTS.
Tibet's just like an adolescent now. We've looked after them while they were young and all. It's just going into rebellion. Here's an example: My dad used to get a bit aggro at me for not studying for selective high school for the best education possible. I had no weekends since I had to learn English - I'd almost past the critical period...so I went and told a teacher who'd told the DOCS, which I didn't want. I just wanted to vent. Alright, so they got involved and I was nearly fostered out. The only difference is that Tibet doesn't just want to vent. They want to split us and thus destroy the country. I've to admit - they've timed well in their rebellion.
I wasn't abused and Tibet's part of China. How can a parent hurt a child?! We'd want the best for them, to care for that part of the country, to build it and make it as advanced as the rest, yet they've strayed...and went off to tell the world about it. Like my dad's good intentions, the government's have been convered up.
What the DOCS and the world will never understand is that there're cultural differences and what's "wrong" in this country may be just encouraging in another and every nation has its right in choosing how to rule - e.g. I'd always thought that Muslim women had no human rights. I've picked up English really well, got to learn 2 other languages plus my mother tongue and I simply refuse to believe that the government would "hurt" a part of its own country without being brought to it (Like my dad andd like I was angered and thus insulted you guys and calling you by-products). Tibet's the one who's rebelled in the first place...and if you're a part of a country, then there're limits. If they want something drastically different and they're under our rule, bad luck. We're not high Machiavellians who step all over people to get what they want, we just wish for some peace and unity.
Time will tell everything. Just wait.
Innocent until proven guilty, if you like.
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Gay Captain
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did the tiananmen square massacre happen?
reply "yes" or "no" please, no hilarious dodgy analogies.
reply "yes" or "no" please, no hilarious dodgy analogies.
Aralia
Mieow...
Yes, but same thing, the government was brought into it, forced, compelled. Its methods probably weren't correct, but the intentions weren't wrong - they needed controll. What about the protesters themselves? It's all come down to education again - how to bring your viewpoints forward. I'm not saying the government's entirely right and all-knowing, see.
Have you actually been to China and studied her modern history IN the country? Or have you just relied on Australian reports? Even if they show you primary sources, it isn't like sitting in a Chinese university lecture i.e. the context matters.
I'm not pretending to know all about it and I'm a native.
If you haven't, don't try to judge China and bag out the government without at first having a look at what they've to say. Australians who've always lived here wouldn't know China very well, just like the U.S. is on the other side of the world.
P.s. What abt Middle-east's human rights, Vietnam's...? Breaking into homes or countries uninvited...how much human rights has the west given to other people, if they think they've got so much?!
There's so much fabrication in the world.
Have you actually been to China and studied her modern history IN the country? Or have you just relied on Australian reports? Even if they show you primary sources, it isn't like sitting in a Chinese university lecture i.e. the context matters.
I'm not pretending to know all about it and I'm a native.
If you haven't, don't try to judge China and bag out the government without at first having a look at what they've to say. Australians who've always lived here wouldn't know China very well, just like the U.S. is on the other side of the world.
P.s. What abt Middle-east's human rights, Vietnam's...? Breaking into homes or countries uninvited...how much human rights has the west given to other people, if they think they've got so much?!
There's so much fabrication in the world.
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Stott Despoja
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Though I will concede that dhj does have a point concerning the economic development of Tibet (even the Dalai Lama admits as much), posts like the above just make me laugh.Aralia said:
HalcyonSky
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lol.. considering most of the 'primary' information is most likely manipulated and censored.Aralia said:
You know the chinese government's internet censorship policy blocks any news sites, forums, etc that like to write articles on and discuss obscenities such as freedom of speech and democracy? So how about you go back to China and we wont have to read your stupid fucking posts, because bored of studies will be blocked.
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Well, if the sources are manipulated then they'd be tipping towards the government wouldn't they?! Instead, we've got so many reports about how Tibet's been victimised, doesn't work out there.
...and how would you feel if someone insulted you personally on something you're passionate about? Maybe you should be insulted and degraded to know just how it feels.
Some people seriously place no value on "fair go". Everyone has the right to post.
Btw, why would a senator be here anyway?!
...and how would you feel if someone insulted you personally on something you're passionate about? Maybe you should be insulted and degraded to know just how it feels.
Some people seriously place no value on "fair go". Everyone has the right to post.
Btw, why would a senator be here anyway?!
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HalcyonSky
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China disagreesSalchow said:
Slidey
But pieces of what?
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lol... possibly because "the government" is a different entity in each country? China doesn't control world press as it does its own (worst freedom of press rating in the world).Salchow said:
Yeah, I wonder why that is.
The Chinese government certainly doesn't!
Lol, I didn't want to be rude, but I was pointing to certain members of the thread.
Don't detour the criticisms, man.
Everyone has the right to post HERE IN AUSTRALIA. Don't somehow get off on a dodgy tangent and saying that China doesn't allow you to do so. Also, "fair go" is an Australian term and some people HERE are certainly using that to make twisted arguments.
Don't detour the criticisms, man.
Everyone has the right to post HERE IN AUSTRALIA. Don't somehow get off on a dodgy tangent and saying that China doesn't allow you to do so. Also, "fair go" is an Australian term and some people HERE are certainly using that to make twisted arguments.
Hmmm...yeah valid to the extent with a goal to "beat" another's argument. Both arguments may be valid, but if one's twisted to hail another's down, then I can't see how it can be valid in the same way.fOR3V3RPINKKKK said:But the arguments are still valid
There's only one Truth, though, but people believe in what they choose to believe, not that I'm a Christian - and I'm not. We just won't know what the truth is until the end of the road.
Last of all, I'd like to keep peace and be everyone's friend, regardless of everything else.
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Re: Boycott of Olympics
Differences in countries and their cultures would determine what sort of human rights are most important to them, some would probably need collective rights more than individual rights to ensure unity. What's "OMG that's violating human rights" there might be "really patriotic/we're one" here. People can't have too much say.
Besides, China's not that extreme now in her thinking that the doors have opened anyway, e.g. following one leader and doing whatever he says, yet she refuses to immerse herself entirely in the western culture. Besides, some forms of requests cannot be tolerated, NOT ONLY THERE BUT EVERYWHERE AS WELL. We've probably have too much freedom here so that any form of national "for the greater good" thoughts cannot be understood. Australia is pretty diluted.
How well do people really know about China anyway, to make such determined comments to bag her government out?!
Excuse me, but why should everyone follow the west?! Why can't we all be ourselves?! If we don't rely on relativism, then you're certainly suggesting that the west has the absolute sense of human rights, so who's self-indulgent then?! Some aspects of human rights rely on culture, thus cannot be universal and consequently cause much grief in understanding for the west.Schroedinger said:
Differences in countries and their cultures would determine what sort of human rights are most important to them, some would probably need collective rights more than individual rights to ensure unity. What's "OMG that's violating human rights" there might be "really patriotic/we're one" here. People can't have too much say.
Besides, China's not that extreme now in her thinking that the doors have opened anyway, e.g. following one leader and doing whatever he says, yet she refuses to immerse herself entirely in the western culture. Besides, some forms of requests cannot be tolerated, NOT ONLY THERE BUT EVERYWHERE AS WELL. We've probably have too much freedom here so that any form of national "for the greater good" thoughts cannot be understood. Australia is pretty diluted.
How well do people really know about China anyway, to make such determined comments to bag her government out?!
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^CoSMic DoRiS^^
makes the woosh noises
Re: Boycott of Olympics
I will probably get shit thrown at me from all corners for saying this, but human rights is not a negotiable thing. You cannot use cultural difference as justification for human rights abuses. Some things are just not up for discussion in that sense. Human rights are human rights. Universal. "We do it differently here" is not an excuse.Salchow said: