The 'left' = dirty? (2 Viewers)

[neo o]

No Sarah, it's not quite as simple as "the media's fault".
Those people protesting and getting violent.. WERE LEFTIES, and a large number of them.
When's the last time you've seen a large congression of conservative right-wingers going crazy in the streets?

Krystalnacht. Left v Right insults only spoil a good debate .

 

[Sarah]

No Sarah, it's not quite as simple as "the media's fault".
Those people protesting and getting violent.. WERE LEFTIES, and a large number of them.
When's the last time you've seen a large congression of conservative right-wingers going crazy in the streets?

NTB, all i said was that the media is a strong tool of communication

I've never seen a large congression of conservative rigt wingers going crazy in the streets.

The only times i've seen ppl whose beliefs are aligned with the left go crazy have been through newsreports. That is why i suggest they are a strong tool of communication.

By broadcasting these images, it exposes the public to examples of the actions ppl from the left undertake. If they didn't broadcast these images, the only way ppl learn of the actions they take are through heresay, pamphlets or being there.

As the saying goes "a pictures speaks a thousand words", well the saying is something along the lines of that.

 

[NonExistant]

I refer back to what u said in an earlier post:




You've referred to statistics which include and exclude part time workers. And yet there's still a difference in pay.



Those ABS stats you quoted made a within groups comparison by exluding part-time workers and comparing full time workers.

Yes, and the pay gap get's less and less as more groups are excluded. My prior points outline why there is the differeance at each level, and I figured it was logical then also that the final gap in pay (full time only - women have 85% of mens pay), is explained by even though they may be classified as full time, they may still be working roughly 15% less hours compared to men, perhaps due to having an afternoon off here or there or leaving a half hour early each day to pick up their children from child care. This explains all or at least most of the gap, and any small gap left could simply be put down to the fundamental differances between men and women, perhaps men are in general 2-5% better, or currently there are more qualified, for the higher paying jobs (we can also point out the housing industry is in a current boom, increasing wages in a primarily male dominate workforce, which would also easily explain the difference in pay).

I'm not persuaded by that point. Becuase most ppl start off in an entry level position and gain skills along the way. If they move to a different workplace, it's after they've gained skills which make them employable for whatever position they're offered. It's mainly entry level positions which require training. High power positions are available after you establish yourself.

Ok umm... when your saying "this burden", do you equate child birth as being a burden?

Yes, but even if a women is estabilshed and does have the skills for a job, the point is, there is still an increased risk, compared to males, that she will become pregnant and no longer able to forfill her intended roll in the organisation for a period of time. This could have very detrimental effects in the crtical and high paying jobs if one of your workers is suddenly unable to continue working for 3+ months.

Child birth IS a burden to the company, this cannot be argued, to society and the family yes probably a benefit, but to the company in the short term it is a burden to have a worker unable to forfill their duties - and worst of all - still have to pay them for it. This is why I stated women pose additional risks in fields like this and can well explain why the industry may be more male dominated. As I stated, agreements to intend to not get pregnant during the time of employment would solve this problem, if only they were legal.

*sigh* I'm not even going to bother commenting on this.

You don't agree the gay movement has opened up and is opening up men to many new industries which it was previously thought were socially unacceptable, or that men wouldn't be able to perform as well as women in?

Whilst i do think that feminist can exaggerate the inequalities, what i do think is difficult to accept is that there is no inequality. This is what i'm interpreting from what you're saying

To say no inequality, we must break down the different types or inferences of what inequalities exist:

Legal inequality - There is clearly NO legal inequality AT ALL, ANYWHERE between men and women that favours males more than females.

Societal Perception inequality - This is the view of society as a whole, and while there may still be some lesser views that women are "the weaker sex", or are less capable, most people can still clearly see from history, that men and women are in general fairly equal, with each in general having stregnths and weaknesses compared to one another. This is individuals view in society, and it is virtually impossible to change this, as this is simply what people believe. Stereotypes are fading away gradually, because members of both sexes are now getting involved in all sorts of new and different aspects compared to previously.

Oppurtunity Inequality - It is legislated that both men and women, any race religion ect, should have equal oppurtunity to acheive anything, and that these should not be descriminating factors. Since this is legally true now, from a legal perspective oppurtunity is now equal. There may currently still be some men from the old generation who still seek to preserve male dominence or power from some archaic notion that it's right, however as this generation dies out and subsiquent generations come along, they will all fade away if society is left to run it's course. You cannot overlegislate against this as it will cause a backlash by people who feel the females are then getting "too many" oppurtunities compared to males.

 

[chubbaraff]

<----- Read under the picture

 

[Comrade nathan]

When's the last time you've seen a large congression of conservative right-wingers going crazy in the streets?

Iraq is the most recent. I see a whole bunch of Yanks and other crackers shooting and bombing in the streets, if thats not crazy i dont know what is.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

oh haw de haw har har.

 

[katie_tully]

you cant use iraq as an example...theyre yank righties, 'sif that equates to australian righties.
we are peaceful like butterflies, and even if there is the slightest sniff of a right uprising, usually it's squashed by you psychotics lefts.

uni's are a good example of that. right propaganda lasts .5 of a second in public view, because the lefts run around and rip it all down.

public protests...LEFT! oh noes, VSU we're all doomed, university life as we know it will cease to exist. OH NOES! INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS! we're all going to be fired for having a sick day!!!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Newsflash: Howard, under his industrial relations reforms, is going to turn our industries into gulags, Stalinists cheer with delight.

 

[leetom]

public protests...LEFT! oh noes, VSU we're all doomed, university life as we know it will cease to exist. OH NOES! INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS! we're all going to be fired for having a sick day!!!

Ah...I think VSU and IR reforms are quite valid debate topics, even protest topics.

That's very foolish of you. IR reforms and VSU have the potential to alter current standards of workplace and university conditions. Mocking the Left for taking up their cause is a bit rich, and only suggests that you are a champion of autocratic government, preferring to have these alterations done unto Australian society without any debate on their possible effects. Shame to you, tully.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I have no problem with valid claims.
"The government is taking away your holidays!!!!!" should be silenced.

 

[katie_tully]

Potential.
See, you guys just jump on the worst case scenario bandwagon and think everything is going to go down the toilet.

 

[neo o]

you cant use iraq as an example...theyre yank righties, 'sif that equates to australian righties.
we are peaceful like butterflies, and even if there is the slightest sniff of a right uprising, usually it's squashed by you psychotics lefts.

uni's are a good example of that. right propaganda lasts .5 of a second in public view, because the lefts run around and rip it all down.

public protests...LEFT! oh noes, VSU we're all doomed, university life as we know it will cease to exist. OH NOES! INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS! we're all going to be fired for having a sick day!!!

Are you single?

 

[leetom]

Potential.
See, you guys just jump on the worst case scenario bandwagon and think everything is going to go down the toilet.

Jumping on the worst case scenario bandwagon is hardly strictly a feature of the Left.

"You elect Latham, interest rates will skyrocket! "

Are you single?

Of course she is, just look at those eyebrows.

We were encouraging people to not vote Latham for their own good, not to mention the good of the nation.

Right back at 'ya, on VSU and IR reforms.

 

[katie_tully]

Jumping on the worst case scenario bandwagon is hardly strictly a feature of the Left.

"You elect Latham, interest rates will skyrocket! "

We were encouraging people to not vote Latham for their own good, not to mention the good of the nation. :uhhuh: :uhhuh: :uhhuh:

Of course she is, just look at those eyebrows.

Now, now...let's not get personal

Right back at 'ya, on VSU and IR reforms

But that doesn't work, because as you said they only have the "potential" to alter, blah blah. Everything so far has had the potential to go wrong, and the left have been the first to cry about worst case scenarios....but has anything gone wrong?

 

[Shuter]

Ah...I think VSU and IR reforms are quite valid debate topics, even protest topics.

That's very foolish of you. IR reforms and VSU have the potential to alter current standards of workplace and university conditions.

Good, maybe it will finally kill the overly vocal lefties at uni and the archiac corrupt workforce unions.

 

[Xayma]

Heh. I remember that, it was in the NY Times. I pasted that article on to my door (at college) and it lasted for about half an hour before someone ripped it down.

You know what was great about that article is the author even said he would prefer a female in charge. Obviously they didn't bother to read the article