The Official Hamlet/R&G help thread (1 Viewer)

[miss_pie]

hey we started the unit a few days ago and are just reading though notes on context and stuff but i was just wondering what exactly do u focus on in this unit? like what aspect of the plays do u compare?

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

Originally posted by kikujiro
ok, here's a guess.
you know how in R&G the two are constantly going around lost with no idea what to do?
i read somewhere that for knowledge, one must have a memory, but since ros and guil are two characters who are simply summoned into being for the purpose of the play, they have no clear memory of the past, only 'presumptions,' and thus no knowledge of what's really going on and stuff.
i think this is an existentialist idea, but i'm not too sure

However, once they're in the scenes appropriated from Hamlet, they know what they're doing, but that's cos they're meant to be for that part and i guess you could talk about the existentialist notion of them being defined by those around them so that sorta gives them a sense of being and knowing hat to do.

um, does that hlep at all?

mm...don't really know what you're saying, but thx anyways..

Originally posted by miss_pie
hey we started the unit a few days ago and are just reading though notes on context and stuff but i was just wondering what exactly do u focus on in this unit? like what aspect of the plays do u compare?

in this unit, you compare:
----characters: how the audience see each character in each play and how they differ

----language styles used

----societal background in each play and how they influence shakespeare/stoppard in writting the play

----compare the different plots and how they interlink

----themes, there are some themes that are used in BOTH plays, but are viewed in a different perspective

 

[kikujiro]

Originally posted by ToO LaZy ^*
mm...don't really know what you're saying, but thx anyways..

yeah, sorry, i kind of suck at describing things.

anyways, what i'm trying to say is, your quote from the text is about guil questioning the validity of their memories. this can be an important notion, cos you can make it relate to the whole 'seeming' and 'believeing' stuff (i can try to expand if you want)
anyways, they question their memories cos ros and guil are characters who are simply summoned into being. they have no past or background, they simply exist.
cos they have no past or background that exists before the play Hamlet, this is a source of confusion for them, because they don't realise that they were created by the playwright solely for the prupose fo the play, and thus you have them constantly trying to remember the past and quesitoning their memories.

from there you can go into humanism and existentialism, but it can get kinda confusing...took me ages to understand.

sorry if it still doens't make sense

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

Originally posted by kikujiro
yeah, sorry, i kind of suck at describing things.

anyways, what i'm trying to say is, your quote from the text is about guil questioning the validity of their memories. this can be an important notion, cos you can make it relate to the whole 'seeming' and 'believeing' stuff (i can try to expand if you want)
anyways, they question their memories cos ros and guil are characters who are simply summoned into being. they have no past or background, they simply exist.
cos they have no past or background that exists before the play Hamlet, this is a source of confusion for them, because they don't realise that they were created by the playwright solely for the prupose fo the play, and thus you have them constantly trying to remember the past and quesitoning their memories.

from there you can go into humanism and existentialism, but it can get kinda confusing...took me ages to understand.

sorry if it still doens't make sense

ohhhk..that made much more sense

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

got a question..
in what period was hamlet and R&G written in?...
i remember one of them was written in the elizabethian society, but forgot which one.

 

[Sarah168]

umm you're kidding right?! Hamlet was written in Eizabethan times!! and Ros and Guil was written in the 60's....I still cant tell if the question is a joke

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

umm...yes..er...it was a joke!
ah! ah! ah!
fooled you sarah!........................

 

[glitterfairy]

ahhh I just did an assessment on R&G and Hamlet today, wish I'd come here before I started cramming today... ha;f an hour before the assessment! what a good studier I am lol...

The 'buzzwords' and 'buzzthemes' of R&G and Hamlet are, to my extremely small knowledge and capabilities:

FATE
DEATH
IDENTITY

and, two things you will want to look at, Language, and Historical Context. You may also wish to explore meta-theatre, particularly in R&G, and Stoppard's relation with Theatre of the Absurd.

The notion of fate is a great one- Hamlet is always discussing 'to be or not to be', questioning his role in fate and whether he can change anything. In R&G, Ros and Guil are presented as something akin to slaves of fate- they have no control over their destiny whatsoever- it is predetermined. "There must have been a point where we could have said no...we must have missed it" is evidence of this.

Death is a big Elizabethan theme- the ghost approaches Hamlet because he cannot move on until his earthy business has been concluded. Dealth, and also bloody goriness typical to Elizabethan Revenge Tragedy, is a big part- Hamlet will seek revenge via the sword. However in R&G death is represented in a comical, flippant fashion. However yet again fate has predetermined Ros and Guil's fate in the title: "R & G are Dead".

Identity is also a huge part to play in both roles. In Hamlet, the rich, eloquent language constantly seeks, in a self-reflexive way, Hamlet's own identity and place in a world that is in the process of changing from a traditional world (divine right of kingship etc) to new ideas, and new ways of thinking- Hamlet is a novus hommo, a new man, who begins to think in a Humanist way (echoing the historical context of the transition between Catholicism to Protestantism of the times- the religious and thus also social upheaval). Ros and Guil actually have no idea who they are, or even why they are in particular places or for what reason- "we were summoned, and now we are here" is all they can think of. Even their stichomatic word games- "I'll Hie you home!" "Who are you?" "you're yourself" show that language- the only tool which they can use to communicate- is meaningless.

Stoppard's focus on marginalised characters such as Ros and Guil, also his focus on the meaningless quality of language (so different for Shakespeare's prose, here is colloquial, even crude lines) is typical of the Absurdist Theatre which focuses on absurd things, such as language, and any past beliefs, typical of the 60s movement in which the movement from Modernism to Post-Modernism (I'm not sure of that actually, but it seems about right( beliefs led so many to question what was previously taken without question.

 

[glitterfairy]

oops- metatheatre, ie, play within a play, is evident in R&G where the audience is often directly addressed- ie "Whos' there?". all the men and women are merely players, trapped within their lines and their roles- "Where is your costume sir?" "Why, I never change out of it sir?"

Also the lack of religion in R&G- "Give us this day our daily mask/role" (ie what are we playing today?" Tell, us, you authoritive constructor (ie Stoppard)

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

thanks for that..it was very helpful
my assessment coming up is soo bad..
i have to do act/speak 2 scenes that are related from r&g and hamlet (20 lines each) + do a 1000 word analysis on the 2 scenes..you got let off easy !!..arghh!

 

[miss_pie]

thankyou so very much glitterfairy

 

[jawjayo]

hey glitter fairy, how much did that assessment suck. note to everybody .. writing about R&G and Hamlet in a student magazine feature article is impossible. how are u meant to be writing about existentialism and make it suit that audience? unless it's like a student literary magazine for year 12 students who study these texts.. the hardest of all (except perhaps pardoners tale with middle english.. but neway). so, if nebody would care to enlighten me on writing about the texts in genres feel free. im still confused.

 

[glitterfairy]

EXISTENTIALISM!!! HA! I didn't even touch that in the assessment... I don't even know how to spell it properly! hahaha!

But oooh... it's ANOTHER person from my english class! Now I have to figure out who you are...

but yes, our question was stupid. I personally felt that it did not specifically addess R&G and Hamlet at all. All it asked was if there was any creativeness in transformations- so, do we answer the actual question, or ramble on abut R&G and Hamlet? Have no idea. The fact that "Great essay, but answer the question!" was on everyone's practice essay didn't help either.

 

[randhi]

guys i'm stuck once again, i wrote an essay and its crap i know because the teacher said so. can anyone explain this to me :

i'm writing about the way that Ros and Guil are transformed from minor characters to major characters in Ragad. so for every point i talk about there has to be a value right?
so i have one point saying okay so they change because its due to the search for identity in the sixities
then protagonists, where shakespeare uses high standing tragic protagonist whilst stoppard doesnt this allows the modern audience to empathize with Ros and guil.

and thats all ihave.
if any one would be kind enough to help me out, it would me appreciated.

thanks

 

[glitterfairy]

It's also Absurdist Theatre.

Stoppard focused on marginalised characters such as Ros and Guil for a variety of reasons- you could say that in one way, it shows that such minor characters are still subject to the unchangeable force of fate- they MUST die, also, they have no will of their own.

In many versions on Hamlet Ros and Guil are completely ommitted because they play no real part in the storyline- they almost have no purpose. In the typical context of Absurdist Theatre (so sixties) this notion that minor characters cannot think for themselves nor communicate to the same extent as say, Hamlet is explored even further- we do not know exactly who Ros and Guil are- nor do they, nor anyone else in the play. They have no idea why they are even there, or what their purpose is, nor do we ever find out.

It's a very post-modern concept and you're on the right track- what stoppard is doing is destabalising everything we know and everything we think we know. From Ros and Guil's persepctive we have no authoritative reading- and there is such confusion and angst in the story.

I could ramble on, but I'm already waffling my butt off- so I'll stop here lol.

Best wishes!

 

[randhi]

alright can i run this by you
for the character paragraph if i wrote
Ros and Guil are two minor characters Hamlet that transform into protagonists in the Ragad, through this transformation the differing context and values are demonstrated which in turn creates a new understanding to the play Hamlet.

can i have this as a my topic sentence.

thank you so much glitterfairy for ur help!!

 

[glitterfairy]

Hmm...

I don't know whether they 'transform' into major characters- rather, in Stoppard's transformation of Hamlet, they become the main characters. From the marginalised, they are centralised. This doesn't malke them heros, however. Are they 'anti-heros'? Also, you might also wonder whether they really are protagonists. They are not the most important characters in the plot of the play, nor do they really do anything 'good'- by the same token, they also do not ever do anything 'bad'.

But yes- due to the change in context (mainly historical), the values and issues brought up in R&G are obviously different, and more relevant to our particular time.

Best wishes!

PS- 'JAWJI', I FOUND YOU!!!! AH HAHAHA! 2 Hornsby Girls down, 2 more to go... :S (I'm going on a h-g-h-s hunt! heeheehee)

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

mm..eng play assessment tomorrow
sooo screwed..

 

[dollparts]

Originally posted by jawjayo
hey glitter fairy, how much did that assessment suck. note to everybody .. writing about R&G and Hamlet in a student magazine feature article is impossible. how are u meant to be writing about existentialism and make it suit that audience? unless it's like a student literary magazine for year 12 students who study these texts.. the hardest of all (except perhaps pardoners tale with middle english.. but neway). so, if nebody would care to enlighten me on writing about the texts in genres feel free. im still confused.

yeah how much did that assessment suck. i was totally hoping it would be the interview, but at least it wasn't that gay review thing. ah well, i did way better than i expected. the way mr e was carrying i thought we all must have failed, then he was like "i've never seen so many 12s" and i was like uh i would be happy with 12. but i got 13 and was euphoric anyway, georgie and lynn (yes i know who you are - your code names will never fool me), you probably don't know who this is so i shall keep you in suspense by not telling you! mwahaha!

 

[raspb3rry]

what would the moral context be in hamlet and r&g?