the rank and the people above you (1 Viewer)

[velzee]

So lets say for one of your subjects your coming 3rd and the person above you screw's up preety badly(gets 60) and you get the second highest mark of 84 in the exam. AND you have an internal of 78, does that mean ur internal is now 81?

or is it higher?

 

[Just.Snaz]

Velzee dearest, I know you're so curious/worried about how your marks will turn out but it aint gonna get you no where hun.

Your assessment mark is moderated according to how your class did. I do however predict that you will get an internal mark close or exact to the person who was coming 2nd. They will get a not so nice mark.

 

[mathslover]

So lets say for one of your subjects your coming 3rd and the person above you screw's up preety badly(gets 60) and you get the second highest mark of 84 in the exam. AND you have an internal of 78, does that mean ur internal is now 81?

or is it higher?

no
ur external mark will be 84 and ur internal mark will be the 3rd-highest HSC mark. eg. if the third highest hsc mark is 82, ur internal mark will be 82.
hence ur overall mark for the HSC wil be the average of 84 and 82 ie. 83.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[cem]

no
ur external mark will be 84 and ur internal mark will be the 3rd-highest HSC mark. eg. if the third highest hsc mark is 82, ur internal mark will be 82.
hence ur overall mark for the HSC wil be the average of 84 and 82 ie. 83.
Hope that makes sense.

NO


The only exam marks that are definitely used (assuming no ties) are first and last.

After allocating the top and bottom exam marks to the top and bottom internal students they allocate the remaining students marks based on THREE things:

first the ranks of the students
second the gaps between the students
third the total number of marks earned by the students in the class.

Thus is the 2nd student is one mark behind the first ranked student in the exam but 10 marks behind in the assessment they won't get the second exam mark as their internal - it will be dropped considerably to reflect the gap as well as the rank.

 

[velzee]

thats so unfair though! Especially if the third persons mark is 70.

SO does that mean that even though i got the 2nd highest mark in the exam my internal mark becomes the crapy 70? and then my hsc mark becomes 70 + 84/ 2 = 77 ? (this is lower than my original internl of 78)

 

[cem]

thats so unfair though! Especially if the third persons mark is 70.

SO does that mean that even though i got the 2nd highest mark in the exam my internal mark becomes the crapy 70? and then my hsc mark becomes 70 + 84/ 2 = 77 ? (this is lower than my original internl of 78)

NO

You keep your own external mark at all times.

Your internal mark won't necessarily be one that another student earned in the exam at all.

It will reflect your rank and the gap between you and the students above and below you. How is that not fair - it reflects the efforts you and they have done throughout the year?

If you have really done well in the exam than 50% of your final result will reflect that.

If you get 100% on the exam you will keep that (and the top internal mark will become 100 as a reflection of the top ranked student at your school getting that as their internal moderated mark but keeping their own exam mark e.g. 80 giving them a final mark of 90).

You keep your 100 and then get a mark that reflects your third ranking and the gap between you and the rest of your class. Say you are 8 marks behind 1st then your final assessment mark would be close to 8 marks behind 1st so about 92 or 93 - giving you a final mark of 96.

Alternatively if 2nd has done badly and receives 60 then he will keep his 60 but because he was say 2 marks ahead of you then his assessment mark will have to reflect that and his will rise to 98 as he was 2 marks ahead of you and thus his final mark would become 77. There is the extra concern is that the total marks for the cohort has to be the same for the exams and for the moderated exam marks. If your class has 25 students and in total they earn 2200 marks then there are 2200 marks to be awarded for the assessments as well.

I am using an extreme example of raising you to 100 to emphasise that the exam marks are only used for the first and last ranked students and the rest of the students are placed in rank order based on ranks, gaps and total marks.

 

[Lukybear]

Wait so... if say Your comming second in ur internals and is behind say 9 marks and get 100 in your externals (Considering 1st in class gets 100 internals). However every1 else in your class stuffed the externals, whereby the total sum of internal mark ie is 2200 whilst the external mark is 1800.

Does this mean still that i will get 91 for my aligned internals? Or does that mean I get pulled down due to bad total externals?

Edit: What if also that your coming first with only 2 marks in front of person coming second. However everybody stuffs up external exam except you. Does this cosequentially mean they will pull you down??

 

[cem]

Wait so... if say Your comming second in ur internals and is behind say 9 marks and get 100 in your externals (Considering 1st in class gets 100 internals). However every1 else in your class stuffed the externals, whereby the total sum of internal mark ie is 2200 whilst the external mark is 1800.

Does this mean still that i will get 91 for my aligned internals? Or does that mean I get pulled down due to bad total externals?

Edit: What if also that your coming first with only 2 marks in front of person coming second. However everybody stuffs up external exam except you. Does this cosequentially mean they will pull you down??

Yes - your classes internal total would drop to 1800.

This is because the moderation process is the only way to ensure that all schools are given the internals on the same scale - that of the externals.

The 2200 earned as internals could be because you teacher was too generous with their marking thus inflating the marks - the whole point of moderation is to bring your internals onto the same scale as everyone elses internals.

 

[adnan91]

Easy and simplified question. IN 3U MATHS. If im ranked second and my internal is 79%. The person coming FIRST has an internal of 82% 3 marks difference. IF I IN THE HSC EXAM completly beat the person coming first by like 10% or more WHAT HAPPENS?

 

[Lukybear]

... But what if say internals are really close, say 1st=100 2nd=98 and I came 2nd.

Then in the externals 1st got 60 however I came 2nd and got 100 and every1 else got really low, due to pressure etc.

Theorotically then I came second would get pulled down extremeley wouldnt it, because they take into account the total number of marks earned by the students in the class which is really low. Is that true??

 

[Lukybear]

Easy and simplified question. IN 3U MATHS. If im ranked second and my internal is 79%. The person coming FIRST has an internal of 82% 3 marks difference. IF I IN THE HSC EXAM completly beat the person coming first by like 10% or more WHAT HAPPENS?

I think you also gota take into account the total number of marks earned by the students in the class?? according to cem

 

[Lukybear]

Something I've never really understood: if you've got a middle-ish internal rank, and then you totally nail the external exam (Let's say your external is one of the top marks of your school cohort) - does your internal mark effectively 'overtake' some of the people ranked higher (internally) but did worse (externally)?

If your middle-ish ranked then you internal makr(alligned) will be middle-ish.

But i think if u nail externals, however every1 else in your cohourt completely stuffs up, I think your internals will be pulled down... I think...

 

[cem]

... But what if say internals are really close, say 1st=100 2nd=98 and I came 2nd.

Then in the externals 1st got 60 however I came 2nd and got 100 and every1 else got really low, due to pressure etc.

Theorotically then I came second would get pulled down extremeley wouldnt it, because they take into account the total number of marks earned by the students in the class which is really low. Is that true??

Your internal mark is determined by the rank and gap and total marks so if the ranks going in were really close they do take that into account but they also have to take into account the total number of marks available from the exam to give the entire cohort.

You wouldn't end up the 40 behind suggested by the externals but there aren't enough marks around for you to only be 2 marks behind (in your really hypothetical case - I would suspect a full review of the internals to try to explain the anomoly but that is another issue).

In simple terms (and this applies for 99.9% of students and schools every year)

you get your own external mark, and a moderated mark based on the ranks and gaps sent in by the school but also bearing in mind the total marks available as earned by your cohort in the exam with the top exam result setting the top mark for the moderated internals and the bottom exam result setting the bottom mark for the moderated interal marks. The rest are allocated based on ranks, gaps and using available marks.

 

[cem]

Something I've never really understood: if you've got a middle-ish internal rank, and then you totally nail the external exam (Let's say your external is one of the top marks of your school cohort) - does your internal mark effectively 'overtake' some of the people ranked higher (internally) but did worse (externally)?

Your internal rank canNOT change due to your external mark but...your final rank can change drastically depending on how you go in the exam e.g. you are ranked 6/12 based on internal assessment but you nail the external exam and come first on it. You will get your exam mark (the best) as your exam mark, your moderated assessment mark - the 6th ranked mark which is not necessarily the 6th exam mark for your class. These two marks are then averaged and it is very likely that you would overtake some of those ahead of you.

A number of years ago I sent in a student ranked about 6th or 7th who did nail the exam and got the 2nd best exam mark. There final position rose to about 3rd I think - not their internal mark mind you but the final average of the moderated assessment and the exam mark.

 

[lilredelmo]

Cem


I go to a selective high and have some LOW rankings.....am I better off (final assesment mark) being low there than up near the top at my local school?LOL.I have REALLY enjoyed the social and sporting aspects of school,haven't struggled BUT of course have low rankings.I know at other schools even with the same "work" ethic I would be close to top.Is the moderation enough to overtake these students???(my school is top 40)

THANK YOU..

 

[cem]

Cem


I go to a selective high and have some LOW rankings.....am I better off (final assesment mark) being low there than up near the top at my local school?LOL.I have REALLY enjoyed the social and sporting aspects of school,haven't struggled BUT of course have low rankings.I know at other schools even with the same "work" ethic I would be close to top.Is the moderation enough to overtake these students???(my school is top 40)

THANK YOU..

The general consensus is that selective high schools set harder assessment tasks and the final exam marks will allow for some compensation for those with lower ranks.

That being said selective high schools take students from the top 10% of the state at the end of Year 6 but they don't all end up in the top 10% at the end of Year 12.

In short a lot will depend on exactly how you and your cohort goes in the exams. If the range of exam marks is say 80 - 100 then the assessment marks will also be between 80 - 100 so even the last placed student will get 80.

 

[thithle]

ok... starting to feel sick now..

ANCIENT HISTORY
during the year i topped the class in our half yearlies and trial - with a mark of 90 for the trial (my school is renowned for marking hardly).
i ended up coming 2nd overall in ancient history ( i was told only 1 or 2 marks behind 1st)

HOWEVER
i feel i didnt do that well in the ancient HSC exam-- expecting about an 85 or 86.

the person ranked 5th found the exam really good though and i suspect that person will have outperformed me in the HSC exam.

have i lost my chance at getting a band 6 in ancient?

will i end up getting a bad mark now?

 

[cem]

ok... starting to feel sick now..

ANCIENT HISTORY
during the year i topped the class in our half yearlies and trial - with a mark of 90 for the trial (my school is renowned for marking hardly).
i ended up coming 2nd overall in ancient history ( i was told only 1 or 2 marks behind 1st)

HOWEVER
i feel i didnt do that well in the ancient HSC exam-- expecting about an 85 or 86.

the person ranked 5th found the exam really good though and i suspect that person will have outperformed me in the HSC exam.

have i lost my chance at getting a band 6 in ancient?

will i end up getting a bad mark now?

I would expect that 85 - 86 would be aligned very close to a Band 6 and so if the rest of your cohort did well then you should get the Band 6 or just miss it - like 88 - 89.

 

[thithle]

thanks bradman and cem