the US is not a democracy. (1 Viewer)

[bigboyjames]

the US is not a democracy, but a corporate oligarchy - ie policy is dictated by powerful corporations who yield politicians with vested interests through "lobbying" (read: bribery - it's not a secret, it's open information - you can find out how much money many particular candidates have received from corporations), not to mention the fact that many in office have held positions in many of these corporations themselves (Bush, Cheney (Halliburton-military), Wolfowitz (world bank), Rumsfeld, Rice (Chevron-oil) etc - the list is enormous).

The majority of the US population have opinions (according to opinion polls - US attitudes are heavily monitored) on the war, healthcare, social spending, the environment, nuclear weaponry, diplomacy, that the US government doesn't follow. That automatically removes the privilege of being called a democracy. You're not a democracy by putting an X beside your candidate of choice every four years, you're a democracy if policy is dictated by the majority.

can mods please remove spams. it just ruins the flow of discussion.

 

[Iron]

There's a fine historical debate about whether the founding fathers were more concerned with their own economic interests, rather than freedom, liberty, democracy etc. The contention is that an economic elite have always ruled America, and they wrote the COnstitution in such a way to ensure that the unwashed masses never get their hands in the till.

If I were a believing man, i'd talk about Obama now, but screw 'im!

 

[Enteebee]

tbh the 'best' nation imo is one which rests power in the elite while giving the appearance of power to the people.

 

[jb_nc]

the US is not a democracy, but a corporate oligarchy - ie policy is dictated by powerful corporations who yield politicians with vested interests through "lobbying" (read: bribery - it's not a secret, it's open information - you can find out how much money many particular candidates have received from corporations), not to mention the fact that many in office have held positions in many of these corporations themselves (Bush, Cheney (Halliburton-military), Wolfowitz (world bank), Rumsfeld, Rice (Chevron-oil) etc - the list is enormous).

The majority of the US population have opinions (according to opinion polls - US attitudes are heavily monitored) on the war, healthcare, social spending, the environment, nuclear weaponry, diplomacy, that the US government doesn't follow. That automatically removes the privilege of being called a democracy. You're not a democracy by putting an X beside your candidate of choice every four years, you're a democracy if policy is dictated by the majority.

can mods please remove spams. it just ruins the flow of discussion.

SMOKE WEED BROSEF

BU$H DID 911

CoMpUtErS CONTROLLING OUR MINds lol $$$$$$$$$ military industrial complex brainwashing us. dont be a sheep. THINK!

 

[BackCountrySnow]

democracy /d

'm

kr

si/

→ noun
(pl. democracies) [mass noun] a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives: a capitalist system of parliamentary democracy.

 

[jb_nc]

Did you know: Socrates would have been vehemently opposed to a democracy. It's true!

 

[Iron]

NTB, I think so too. After reading some of Madison's Federalists Papers (esp 51), you end up very convinced of his public arguement, even though his secret beliefs are more dubious (eg government will not be overbearing, but the masses will effectively have no say in it)

 

[Serius]

democracy /d

'm

kr

si/

→ noun
(pl. democracies) [mass noun] a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives: a capitalist system of parliamentary democracy.

I would define democracy as a system of government in which every citizen has the right to vote on legislation. What we have is representive democracy because i dont get to vote on every peice of legislation. Also, not every citizen is allowed to vote, criminals for instance whilst still being recognized as citizens are denied their right to vote, those under the age of 18, whilst still citzens - denied their right, the disabled - denied. if you happen to miss the cutoff for registration, despite your status as a citizen you are denied your right to vote.

The Athenians got it right, and whilst still not ideal [they only classed wealthy male s with both parents born in Athens as citizens] at least they got their say on any peice of legislation that interested them.

 

[Zrap]

DiD U nO d@T G3oRg3 n Os@mA wEr lIk BeSti3zz

 

[Slidey]

the US is not a democracy, but a corporate oligarchy - ie policy is dictated by powerful corporations who yield politicians with vested interests through "lobbying" (read: bribery - it's not a secret, it's open information - you can find out how much money many particular candidates have received from corporations), not to mention the fact that many in office have held positions in many of these corporations themselves (Bush, Cheney (Halliburton-military), Wolfowitz (world bank), Rumsfeld, Rice (Chevron-oil) etc - the list is enormous).

The majority of the US population have opinions (according to opinion polls - US attitudes are heavily monitored) on the war, healthcare, social spending, the environment, nuclear weaponry, diplomacy, that the US government doesn't follow. That automatically removes the privilege of being called a democracy. You're not a democracy by putting an X beside your candidate of choice every four years, you're a democracy if policy is dictated by the majority.

can mods please remove spams. it just ruins the flow of discussion.

I tend to agree.

 

[Garygaz]

Vote Obama. He's running a campaign without donations from lobbyists, it's about time candidates stop relying on corporations funding their campaign trails in return for political favours.

OBAMA, OBAMA (repeat)

 

[kokodamonkey]

I would define democracy as a system of government in which every citizen has the right to vote on legislation. What we have is representive democracy because i dont get to vote on every peice of legislation. Also, not every citizen is allowed to vote, criminals for instance whilst still being recognized as citizens are denied their right to vote, those under the age of 18, whilst still citzens - denied their right, the disabled - denied. if you happen to miss the cutoff for registration, despite your status as a citizen you are denied your right to vote.

The Athenians got it right, and whilst still not ideal [they only classed wealthy male s with both parents born in Athens as citizens] at least they got their say on any peice of legislation that interested them.

I Look at democracy as being that the people are able to vote for who they want to lead them, and they are free to vote and have freedom of speech and the freedom of the media. It is essential to have those 3elements to have a true democracy. My example being Russia, where the media isn't free and thus speech isn't free, Thus all media there speaks highly of Putin and negatively of his "opponents".

Where as look here in Australia or America. You had Television stations for and against Howard/Rudd. YOu had newspapers for and against Howard/Rudd. We were freely allowed to protest against the war in iraq etc. If we are unhappy with the actions of our leaders, then we can use OUR vote to change who our leaders are. I believe the same is what happens in America, except that their system is different on how they elect people, but the principle and the freedom is exactly the same.

At the end of the day a corporation doesn't have a vote, it is us, the people that do.

John Howard peacefully handed over the reigns to Kevin Rudd with some tea and coffee.. George Bush will do so the same with Obama/McCain. It is with such a peaceful transition of power/leadership, that we can sit back and truly say, yes this is a democracy.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

The majority of the US population have opinions (according to opinion polls - US attitudes are heavily monitored) on the war, healthcare, social spending, the environment, nuclear weaponry, diplomacy, that the US government doesn't follow.

I consider that a good thing. The majority of people are idiots and shouldn't be listened to.

If anything the level of democracy should be decreased further. Governments are not rewarded for good policy, they are rewarded for catering to the idiots and being more effective than their competition in confusing them with political propaganda. That just doesn't make sense.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

So you'd advocate for dictatorship?

No.

I don't think everyone should be able to vote but I do think some people should... something like the most intelligent and well educated 10% of the population.

 

[townie]

No.

I don't think everyone should be able to vote but I do think some people should... something like the most intelligent and well educated 10% of the population.

so you'd be out then, i suppose, sign me up!

 

[townie]

so you'd be out then, i suppose, sign me up!

P.S. technically australia isnt a democracy, it's a constitutional monarchy

 

[neo o]

Did you know: Socrates would have been vehemently opposed to a democracy. It's true!

Socrates and Aristotle would have loved Singapore. Seriously.

 

[Gerald10]

America is a democracy - however i think its a legitimate argument to say that it is guided by the wealthy.

But I think paradoxically it is also guided by the ignorant average joe - as with any democracy. Rather than making tough decisions which is ultimately in the long term best interest of the nation they just make short sighted populist decisions merely to retain power. That is the reality of the modern democracy - although guided by the wealthy, the ultimate decision making power lies in the hands of the ignorant middle class who couldnt give two shits about politics at all.

The success of the economic right wing since thatcher and reagan has been largely because they aligned themselves with the social conservatives in the middle to lower classes - the pauline hanson demographic. These people don't understand the theory of economic rationalism or even what it means to be a fiscal conservative but know by voting for the socially conservative they get to keep out the johnny foreigners and keep their guns.

These are the people that really run the free world - scary.

But ultimately democracy is, although flawed, the best way. Democracy is ultimately neccesary for a stable country in my opinion because, as kennedy said, those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

 

[TacoTerrorist]

^ Good post.

 

[sam04u]

Direct Democracy/Public controlled, unbiased media.

That's my idea of democracy.