This is total BS (1 Viewer)

[Venom.]

Saying Deaths by sectarian violence > Deaths by coalition forces = epic fail.

 

[whatashotbyseve]

As is generally the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle. My care factor = 0 tbh.

 

[Barmble]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Coming from an Israeli supporter :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Israel and the Jewish people have long been supporters of the ideas behind using peaceful means to work out differences, and have always practiced these ideas since the very creation of the beautiful state. Have you ever tried to work out your differences with a violent rabid dog, or a monkey who throws shit at you? All violence practiced by Israel has been completely necessary, to protect her and her citizens from extermination.

Saying Deaths by sectarian violence > Deaths by coalition forces = epic fail.

There are many studies / surveys on the death counts, each are very different. Saying it was all caused by the coalition forces is rash, though. The sectarian violence has always been there, racking up body counts year after year.

 

[SAVAK]

Israel and the Jewish people have long been supporters of the ideas behind using peaceful means to work out differences, and have always practiced these ideas since the very creation of the beautiful state. Have you ever tried to work out your differences with a violent rabid dog, or a monkey who throws shit at you? All violence practiced by Israel has been completely necessary, to protect her and her citizens from extermination.

ROFLMAO. i cringed while i read that.

 

[Venom.]

Israel and the Jewish people have long been supporters of the ideas behind using peaceful means to work out differences, and have always practiced these ideas since the very creation of the beautiful state. Have you ever tried to work out your differences with a violent rabid dog, or a monkey who throws shit at you? All violence practiced by Israel has been completely necessary, to protect her and her citizens from extermination.



There are many studies / surveys on the death counts, each are very different. Saying it was all caused by the coalition forces is rash, though. The sectarian violence has always been there, racking up body counts year after year.

Wow, there's no further purpose arguing this with you. Someone shoved a rod very deep into your skull one day, and it seems you've never recovered.

And if you can provide any evidence of the sectarian violence being on the scale of what it is now, then let me know.

 

[Cookie182]

Meh, one less potential terrorist locked up.

In seriousness, it is not our right to judge other countries law, no matter how archaic it looks.

Well, if your an ethical relativist then no you can't. But I'm not, I'm rather objective, so I will JUDGE other laws- tolerance is not what I preach.

 

[Gloves]

this story is pretty fucking ridiculous. he didn't even hit bush.

now, i know, assault is assault, and fair enough. but still, 3 years is an insane amount of time for a relatively petty offence.

 

[Venom.]

No... that's categorically untrue. Are you on meth?

Thats what you intimated with your original post.

 

[Venom.]

Did you read the article? It doesn't 'pwn' my argument at all, it says that people have died because of the war.

Are you really saying that the people of Iraq are just animals that would tear each other apart if they weren't kept under the jackboot of a dictator...

Because that's what it looks like.

Better Saddam and the Baa'thists be put into the ground.

Yes, and your argument was that sectarian violence was the reason behind the death toll. The article says if America didnt invade, 655,000 less people would've died. I dunno, I'm pretty sure that proves AS A DIRECT RESULT OF AMERICAN INVASION, 655,000 people died.

 

[Venom.]

If a man kills another man is he not directly responsible for his actions? I'm not excusing that it was a stupid idea to go into Iraq, but the people who are killing each other are sectarian, and merely that this situation was catalysed by the invasion does not absolve them of their actions.

It is absurd to argue otherwise.

Yes, I accept there was a pre-existent sectarian issue within Iraq. But arguing that "the people who are killing each other" is purely due to sectarian violence is illogical and frankly, pretty retarded.

The invasion more than catalysed the situation, it exacerbated it. They gave people the means to attack each other in an unstable country.

 

[JonathanM]

The invasion more than catalysed the situation, it exacerbated it. They gave people the means to attack each other in an unstable country.

This was their choice. They were liberated from Sadaam' grasp; I'm not sure you completely understand the magnitude of this perhaps you should read more into the travesties Sadaam undertook while he was in power?

They were given the freedom to go down almost any path they wanted. A few fucktards chose the wrong path and now they're paying the price for their decision.

As far as I'm concerned though in hindsight Iraq was a bad idea, it remains a sweet idea in foresight. Would you support the removal of Robert Mugabe as dictator of Zimbabwe? Most people would. Anything could happen though, perhaps his removal will remove any thread of order remaining in Zimbabwe and plunge it into chaos - how are we to know, how were the Americans to know.

 

[Venom.]

This was their choice. They were liberated from Sadaam' grasp; I'm not sure you completely understand the magnitude of this perhaps you should read more into the travesties Sadaam undertook while he was in power?

They were given the freedom to go down almost any path they wanted. A few fucktards chose the wrong path and now they're paying the price for their decision.

As far as I'm concerned though in hindsight Iraq was a bad idea, it remains a sweet idea in foresight. Would you support the removal of Robert Mugabe as dictator of Zimbabwe? Most people would. Anything could happen though, perhaps his removal will remove any thread of order remaining in Zimbabwe and plunge it into chaos - how are we to know, how were the Americans to know.

Have you forgotten why America said they were going into Iraq? The whole "liberating the people" bullshit came after their pants got pulled down when they didnt find a trace of any "WMD's".

Lol at comparing Zimbabwe to Iraq. Mugabe is killing people indiscriminately, his economy has hit rock bottom, and any notion of the rule of law dissapeared a long time ago. If America was such a liberating force they would've entered Zimbabwe a long time ago. But Zimbabwe has nothing to offer them. Comparing the two situations is pure idiocy.

Saddam was going into a relative state of calm during the early 2000's. Iraq was no where near as bad as Zimbabwe is now. If you can highlight one gross human rights abuse after 2000, I'd be happy to hear it. If America's real reason for entering Iraq was to "liberate the people" it would've been much more believable if they did it in the early 90s, when Saddam WAS committing gross human rights violations.

 

[JonathanM]

If you can highlight one gross human rights abuse after 2000, I'd be happy to hear it.

Are you seriously asking this? I just want confirmation before I waste my time getting you the long list of references that you can find via Google.

Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Venom.]

The vast majority of deaths are at the hands of sectarian individuals. I've yet to see too many American Marine suicide bombers...

Yeah I think they prefered bombing the fuck out of the towns instead of killing themselves.

 

[Venom.]

Are you seriously asking this? I just want confirmation before I waste my time getting you the long list of references that you can find via Google.

Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the article. The majority of the documented human rights violations were prior to 2000.

And wtf, reply to the rest of the post.

 

[JonathanM]

And wtf, reply to the rest of the post.

I thought it was quite clear that you'd completely missed the point of my post. I never said America was an amazing liberating force. I said, using Zimbabwe as an example, that in foresight, these invasions to remove dictators are good ideas, just as invading Zimbabwe is a good idea in foresight, but it would probably have a chance of fucking up the country even further.

I'm not quite sure what you don't get about this example. I was responding to your claim that the invasion made the situation worse, but that is in fact not the point, it is the morals of wanting to remove Sadaam as a dictator - something most Iraqis, especially the Shiites, also wanted. You think I'm attacking you. No, I am conceding to the point that Iraq is completely fucked up, was the worst idea and that we would never do it again in hindsight.

Foresight = Good Idea

Hindsight = Bad Idea

Your argument that America exacerbated the Iraq problem is true, but I am arguing that America was not able to know that the situation would turn out in such a way and as far as I am concerned are as such pardoned for any deaths caused by sectarian idiots who continue to kill everyone over there.

 

[Venom.]

I thought it was quite clear that you'd completely missed the point of my post. I never said America was an amazing liberating force. I said, using Zimbabwe as an example, that in foresight, these invasions to remove dictators are good ideas, just as invading Zimbabwe is a good idea in foresight, but it would probably have a chance of fucking up the country even further.

I'm not quite sure what you don't get about this example. I was responding to your claim that the invasion made the situation worse, but that is in fact not the point, it is the morals of wanting to remove Sadaam as a dictator - something most Iraqis, especially the Shiites, also wanted. You think I'm attacking you. No, I am conceding to the point that Iraq is completely fucked up, was the worst idea and that we would never do it again in hindsight.

Foresight = Good Idea

Hindsight = Bad Idea

Your argument that America exacerbated the Iraq problem is true, but I am arguing that America was not able to know that the situation would turn out in such a way and as far as I am concerned are as such pardoned for any deaths caused by sectarian idiots who continue to kill everyone over there.

Sorry, must've misinterpreted your original post.