Towards Religious Tolerance (2 Viewers)

[HumanDichotomy]

Anyone who believes in zeus at this time is either retarded or is characterised by insanity. You like making fun of retards and insane people?

Lol. Oh noes. Political incorrectness on Bos!?! Never.

 

[Lentern]

Oh lentern I weep for your weakness.
The Church must never compromise truth. This would be the greatest betrayal of our saviour since Judas. Leave the world to itself, I impore you

Jesus loves me and I love Jesus and thats what matters. If Jesus were here today and we asked him "should we stone bob hawke for being agnostic" he'd be like "what? no, he's a decent bloke he's allright." And then if we were like "but is he going to hell for not beleiving" Jesus would be like "my word no, i mean when the time comes for him to leave the mortal world and we make clear to him he's welcome as one of my fathers children if he says no well thats his choice then he would but we aren't going to hellurise him for being a bit quirky when on earth ofcourse not. I love Bob and would love for to join me in heaven just as I would love for you to join me in heaven you know?"

Thats what its all about yeah?

 

[Iron]

I agree that we shouldnt stone or judge the pagans. If they have no interest in seeking Christ, then it would be futile to try to force Him on them.
But
-we do want to be sure that they understand what theyre refusing and
-we dont want to be accessories to their sin

It's a tough line to walk.


When it comes to Christianity though, I like the formula that (linguistics) Prof Wierzbicka has offered as our universal/cross-cultural message:

Someone doesnt often think like this:
"I dont want bad things to happen to me
I dont want other people to do something bad to me"
This someone thinks like this:
"I dont want to do bad things to other people
I want to do good things for other people"
Because of this, this someone can always live with God*
Because of this, this someone can always feel something good

It is good for this someone if it is like this

*God is someone (not something)
this someone is someone good
this someone is not someone like people
there isnt anyone else like this someone

this someone exists always

everything exists because this someone wants it to exist
people exist because this someone wants them to exist
this someone exists because this someone exists, not because of anything else
this someone lives

 

[Cookie182]

I agree that we shouldnt stone or judge the pagans. If they have no interest in seeking Christ, then it would be futile to try to force Him on them.
But
-we do want to be sure that they understand what theyre refusing and
-we dont want to be accessories to their sin

It's a tough line to walk.


When it comes to Christianity though, I like the formula that (linguistics) Prof Wierzbicka has offered as our universal/cross-cultural message:

Oh we know.

^^ Lentern ftw, he's much more tolerant then you these days

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Lentern ftw.

This.

 

[Iron]

Oh we know.

^^ Lentern ftw, he's much more tolerant then you these days

Lentern is wavering. He needs Christian solidarity in his journey thru the valley of the shadow of death, not your evils

 

[Lentern]

I agree that we shouldnt stone or judge the pagans. If they have no interest in seeking Christ, then it would be futile to try to force Him on them.
But
-we do want to be sure that they understand what theyre refusing and
-we dont want to be accessories to their sin

It's a tough line to walk.


When it comes to Christianity though, I like the formula that (linguistics) Prof Wierzbicka has offered as our universal/cross-cultural message:

Bruv you don't need to convince me to love god I allready do. On the question of what stance do we take towards the estranged children of God we must love them for what they are not what they believe. They are Gods children and we can trust he won't banish them unless they really and trully make the choice fo exile themselves. We must simply care for God's children and love them whilst they are here. Do our best to make them happy and well meaning. Sure we should let them know who we are and whilst we're at it let them know but don't get all fire and brimstone on em if they aren't ready. They have an eternity to live in the other life yet they will come to see it one day. Until then we just try to make sure they don't misstreat any of God's other children. Remember its all about love, forget the deeper analysis and just act out of love and the rest will take care of itself; the creator will make sure of it.

 

[Iron]

I fully agree, but some are more difficult to love than others - particularly the many detractors of this forum. We have no duty to engage them or let them poison our minds with doubt, or compromise our faith to appease them
In the real world, it is always good policy to not ram the faith down every throat we meet, but the intertubes offer unique challenges and new frontiers

 

[Lentern]

Oh we know.

^^ Lentern ftw, he's much more tolerant then you these days

Be nice to Iron, he's trying to introduce you to a beautiful happiness beyond description. Jesus love an invaluable comfort for all of us who feel it.

He was born in Asia Minor,
a colonized Jewish man.
His father the village carpenter,
worked wood in his occupied land.
He was apprenticed to his father’s trade.
His country paid it’s dues;
to the colonial Roman conquerors,
He was a working-class Jew.
Though conceived three months out of wedlock
the stigma never stuck.
He began a three year public life
but he never made a buck
because he spoke out against injustice;
saw that capitalism bled the poor.
He attacked self-righteous hypocrites
and he condemned the lawyers’ law.
But they’ve commercialised his birthday now;
the very people he defied,
and they’ve sanctified their system
and claim he’s on their side!
But if he appeared tomorrow,
He’d still pay the highest cost,
being a ‘radical agitator’
they’d still nail him to a cross.
You see He’d stand with the down trodden masses,
identify with the weak and oppressed.
He’d condemn the hypocrites in church pews,
and the affluent, arrogant West.
He’d oppose Stalinist totalitarianism;
the exploitation of millions by one,
and ‘peace’ through mutual terror,
and diplomacy from the barrel of a gun.
He’d fight with Joe Hill and Walesa,
Mandela and Friere;
Try to free the third world’s millions
from hunger and despair.
He’d stand with the peasants
at the pock-marked walls;
They’d haul him in on bail.
He’d condemn all forms of apartheid,
and he’d rot in their stinking jails.
He’d denounce all dictatorships
and Mammon’s greed,
and the exploitation of others for gain.
He’d oppose the nuclear madness,
and the waging of wars in His name.
He’d mix with prostitutes and sinners,
challenge all to cast the first stone.
A compassionate agitator,
one of the greatest the world has known.
He’d condemn all corrupt law and order,
tear man made hierarchies down.
He’d see status and titles as dominance
and the politics of greed he’d hound.
He’d fight against the leagues of the Ku Klux Klan,
and the radical, racist right.
One of the greatest humanitarian socialists
was comrade, Jesus Christ.

 

[Lentern]

I fully agree, but some are more difficult to love than others - particularly the many detractors of this forum. We have no duty to engage them or let them poison our minds with doubt, or compromise our faith to appease them
In the real world, it is always good policy to not ram the faith down every throat we meet, but the intertubes offer unique challenges and new frontiers

Nobody said it would be easy. Our reward is the knowlege that we being of service to the allmighty and the knowlege that wherever we go no place exists wear we cannot be warmed by the eternal flame that is God's love.

 

[Teclis]

Religious tolerance can never be achieved unless one of two circumstance arise.

One, the entire world uniformly turns to one religion

or alternatively

Two, the trend in human behaviour is broken where we stop instinctively telling everyone else with different beliefs and sometimes in wierd circumstances people with the same beliefs that they're wrong.

I think you, and it seems a few others here, misunderstand Tolerance. But mainly you that I'm pointing my big finger at

Tolerance isn't "everyone is free to think what they want"... THAT is pluralism/relativism.

Tolerance is "I believe wholeheartedly that you're wrong... and I'm going to tell it to your face. But I'm not going to persecute you. I'm not going to point and say 'dirty sinner going to hell', or 'moron with no scientific reasoning'."

Someone once described it to me as a tolerant person being one who can be friends with someone who they share ideologically opposed viewpoint with. An atheist and a Muslim... that sort of thing.

 

[HumanDichotomy]

I think you, and it seems a few others here, misunderstand Tolerance. But mainly you that I'm pointing my big finger at

Tolerance isn't "everyone is free to think what they want"... THAT is pluralism/relativism.

Tolerance is "I believe wholeheartedly that you're wrong... and I'm going to tell it to your face. But I'm not going to persecute you. I'm not going to point and say 'dirty sinner going to hell', or 'moron with no scientific reasoning'."

Someone once described it to me as a tolerant person being one who can be friends with someone who they share ideologically opposed viewpoint with. An atheist and a Muslim... that sort of thing.

I agree with this. Tolerance does not mean complete agreement. It means being able to live alongside someone despite the differences.

 

[Iron]

Nobody said it would be easy. Our reward is the knowlege that we being of service to the allmighty and the knowlege that wherever we go no place exists wear we cannot be warmed by the eternal flame that is God's love.

Yeah, but I really do think that youre fooling yourself if you believe that Christ would approach unrepentant sinners today with such a cool and forgiving attitude. There is infinite mercy there, sure, but to be forgiven you first have to repent. Christ really had little time for those who flaunted their sins in His face. The best attitude to these people is peaceful non-engagement, or Ghandi's non-cooperation.

 

[Cookie182]

My friends are so depressed
I feel the question
Of your loneliness
Confide... `cause Ill be on your side
You know I will, you know I will

X girlfriend called me up
Alone and desperate
On the prison phone
They want... to give her 7 years
For being sad

I love all of you
Hurt by the cold
So hard and lonely too
When you dont know yourself

My friends are so distressed
And standing on
The brink of emptiness
No words... I know of to express
This emptiness

 

[Lentern]

Yeah, but I really do think that youre fooling yourself if you believe that Christ would approach unrepentant sinners today with such a cool and forgiving attitude. There is infinite mercy there, sure, but to be forgiven you first have to repent. Christ really had little time for those who flaunted their sins in His face. The best attitude to these people is peaceful non-engagement, or Ghandi's non-cooperation.

Where we differ I think is that I believe all will be revealed at the appropriate juncture. With a few exceptions most of these agnostics and athiests aren't anti god they just don't think there is enough there to convince them. Let's face it he lives hints but he doesn't spell it out for us. When all is revealed however methinks these people will fall in love with Christ, reject their previous misshaps and willingly enter his kingdom a servant of christ and a son of the lord.

There are affable, charming, reasonable people who go so far as entertain the possibility that there is a God. They are nothing but a credit to our species. I find it too hard to believe that they're going to spend eternity in torture because on the evidence they have now they can't bring themselves to submit. Nah man if he's nice enough to give us earth in all her glory, life in its wonder and heaven in all its mystery he's nice enough to give them one last chance to choose christ.

 

[Iron]

The fires of purgatory perhaps

But the word is clear about the price of not choosing the truth already in our hearts in this world. The kingdom of God is already within us, as a mustard seed. We must let it grow thruout our time on earth

 

[Cookie182]

Note though, believing I don't feel is always a choice.

If Christianity is the truth, its going to be quite difficult to change the whole reality (core beliefs) of a devout muslim raised in Somalia who has never seen anything different and zealously upholds the divine revelation of Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him).

Equally, it is very difficult for secularists who have seen no evidence to take this "leap of faith"- I don't believe that we all have the same mental processes in order to do it, otherwise everyone would believe. For me, faith in this extreme does not feel possible. I'd strongly argue that for the most part it is not a choice and would love to see the psychological literature on this.

Religion is just as much a contextual/cultural thing, although YOU feel it is an absolute truth. Perception equals reality for you, but not your neighbour.

If you can't accept the above, that is where I feel theists and atheists can become highly intolerant (in the extreme can foster terrorism etc).

 

[Lentern]

The fires of purgatory perhaps

But the word is clear about the price of not choosing the truth already in our hearts in this world. The kingdom of God is already within us, as a mustard seed. We must let it grow thruout our time on earth

Oh come now even the clergy don't believe in limbo. He adores all his children with a love more powerful than you or I could ever imagine, he would refuse a child who sought to join him, even if his child took a while to come to that conclusion.

For all the ins and outs of he bible that is what stands tall above all else. He loves us and would like nothing more than for us to join him in the kingdom of heaven in perpetuity. So long as one is willing to love him and live with him how could such a benevolent, loving being deny them?

 

[Cookie182]

Perhaps its not grounded in truth, but I always feel there is something masculine (from the perspective of a male) about conceding that there always at least two different ways of looking at things. That is part of being a man on his path- anything less is boy-like behaviour. Even though you have a side and vehemently stand for its truth, you at least acknowledge that in a world where no philosophical truths can be proven with certainty (objectively, outside your mind), others are entitled to dissent given it's in a harmonious and non-threatening manner.

That's the baseline respect we should expect from every member of the human race, theistic or not.

 

[Cookie182]

Oh come now even the clergy don't believe in limbo. He adores all his children with a love more powerful than you or I could ever imagine, he would refuse a child who sought to join him, even if his child took a while to come to that conclusion.

For all the ins and outs of he bible that is what stands tall above all else. He loves us and would like nothing more than for us to join him in the kingdom of heaven in perpetuity. So long as one is willing to love him and live with him how could such a benevolent, loving being deny them?

It's people who hold views like this that I have no problem sharing this lovely soil with.

My door is always open, brother of humanity.