Treasurer Wayne Swan hints at further stimulus package (2 Viewers)

[Lentern]

Which party was elected to government?

The breakdown of the vote is irrelevant. The Coalition won more seats and hence received this 'mandate' which Rudd and Gillard so often talk of.

Have you considered that the major swings could've occurred in safe ALP seats, thus distorting the two party preferred figures nationally?

Government, of all persuasions, is receiving the benefits now of this so-called 'political opportunism'.

I apologise I believe in an oudated old thing called democracy, something supporters of the coalition of Fraser, of Bjelke Petersen and of Howard would not appreciate. It demonstrates just how little regard you have for the philosophy of democracy that you call the way people voted "irrelevant" and that someone who chooses to live with a bunch of like minded citizens should have the value of their vote reduced. The GST mandate is a masquerade, a slight on democracy, they took it to the election, a majority of people said they didn't want it if indeed you believe an election was decided on policy which is a novel idea. You either believe in democracy or you believe in the GST mandate, they are mutually exclusive.

 

[Lentern]

Do you really think Rudd is complaining about the revenue from the GST now? Let's face it, he called an election specifically on the GST and won. Any other poll or sentiment is irrelevant. People are inherently against change and were always going to be skeptical. The GST is one of Howard's better implementations.

On the further stimulus package, where he is planning on getting the cash from? I can only think of one area. The future fund. In the great words of the Catherine Tate show, run away children, we are all going to die!

Do you see the part where I say Rudd was actually just cowtowing to the party machine, advancing his own position. Rudd like Beazley like Howard treated the GST as not an economic policy, not a social policy and not a fiscal policy but a political policy, those to the left in an attempt to appear compassionate and all that, those to the right in order to seem like they actually had some purpose in forming a government beyond Howard settling some old scores with Keating and Evans. Considering the closeness of the election it's hard to say who calculated best, clearly the GST wasn't popular in itself but it gave the government some kind of standard, a platform without which they were steadilly being mowed down.

But before you give any credit to Howard for his grand reform just remember who made the concessions with the democrats, who wanted it to be 8%, who wanted to call it something else, it was that conviction politician John Howard who was so brave he even suggested to Costello that they hand down advice and templates for each state to introduce their own GST rather than carry the baby themselves. And now we're stuck with this wally of a policy keeping down spending at a time when we both need it but there isn't a politician in the lower house with the guts to take a penny off the states, except maybe Iron bar.

 

[Iron]

What? You can practically chart the history of the Commonwealth as a slow process of stripping the states of money and power

 

[Lentern]

What? You can practically chart the history of the Commonwealth as a slow process of stripping the states of money and power

Yes but they give it back again, directly or indirectly the money ends up in the state, very little of it ends up in the navy or other national projects. Try and touch the states GST money at the moment and it'll be the end of this prime minister. Our mutual friend Mr Latham had a rant in his diaries about the state labor governments and their excitement over GST money really let down Beazley/Crean federally and forced them into an embarrasing backdown. He also says something about it serving Beazley right for being such a souless opportunist and that he and Carr deserve each other.

 

[withoutaface]

I apologise I believe in an oudated old thing called democracy, something supporters of the coalition of Fraser, of Bjelke Petersen and of Howard would not appreciate. It demonstrates just how little regard you have for the philosophy of democracy that you call the way people voted "irrelevant" and that someone who chooses to live with a bunch of like minded citizens should have the value of their vote reduced. The GST mandate is a masquerade, a slight on democracy, they took it to the election, a majority of people said they didn't want it if indeed you believe an election was decided on policy which is a novel idea. You either believe in democracy or you believe in the GST mandate, they are mutually exclusive.

The Westminster System is a 'slight on democracy'? Would you prefer we move to a system where every fuckwit and his dog can vote in an online poll to determine the passage of a Bill?

 

[Will Shakespear]

The Westminster System is a 'slight on democracy'? Would you prefer we move to a system where every fuckwit and his dog can vote in an online poll to determine the passage of a Bill?

imo we should use SMS voting, and raise awareness using big brother style ads on free to air tv every time there's a law to be made

 

[Iron]

Yes but they give it back again, directly or indirectly the money ends up in the state, very little of it ends up in the navy or other national projects. Try and touch the states GST money at the moment and it'll be the end of this prime minister. Our mutual friend Mr Latham had a rant in his diaries about the state labor governments and their excitement over GST money really let down Beazley/Crean federally and forced them into an embarrasing backdown. He also says something about it serving Beazley right for being such a souless opportunist and that he and Carr deserve each other.

Lol ok dude. As much as an authority Latham is on such matters, a quick look at our constitutional law shows that the Cth can (and does) do whatever it likes to the States. It's the Cth, not the states, that get the credit

 

[moll.]

After very little deliberation and having read hundreds of articles denouncing Rudd's useless stimulus packages, I have come to the hert-wrenching and socially unpopular decision that I will be voting Liberal at the next election. I will accept any shouts of "fascist", "capitalist" and "neo-con" with good grace and dignity, as I make a social sacrifice amongst my peers for the greater good. Au revoir, mes amis.

 

[Iron]

Go aheah, THROW your vote away

 

[moll.]

I want to move electorate to one of the SA ones (don't know which) and vote for the Secular Party. lol "tHErE Is NOT eNouGH SepERaTioN BetwEEn ChuRCH aNd StATe!!!1 We MuST CreAte A PolItiCAl ParTY DedIcAtEd To ThiS GOaLz!!!1"

 

[Iron]

The thing about church and state is that it's, you know, a pact between two powerful bodies. The Church says away from politics and power, in return for the State staying away from all things moral.
The state has violated this agreement 1000 times, probably starting with Whitlam's (<3) no-fault divorce laws. What do we get when we raise this appauling breach? "STFO FUNDY, STAY OUTTA MY WOMB" (no problem lady) etc

It is time for a new benevolent order

 

[Lentern]

The Westminster System is a 'slight on democracy'? Would you prefer we move to a system where every fuckwit and his dog can vote in an online poll to determine the passage of a Bill?

I'd prefer a system where we have a parliament of 100 people, if you 52 percent of the vote you'd win 52 seats in the parliament. The Westminister system is nobly designed but the way it was exploited by Howard, Hawke, Carr and Menzies was/is not democratic and claiming it was just weakens the concept of democracy.

And Iron, what do you think the NSW right would do to Rudd if he stopped giving NSW if he pulled the plug on their GST money? Or the Victorian left or that matter?

 

[Iron]

More to the point, what would the public do if the states reimposed their own income tax, as in pre wwii days?

 

[Lentern]

More to the point, what would the public do if the states reimposed their own income tax, as in pre wwii days?

Laugh at them? Tell them where they could shove their tax.

 

[Iron]

I'd prefer a system where we have a parliament of 100 people, if you 52 percent of the vote you'd win 52 seats in the parliament. The Westminister system is nobly designed but the way it was exploited by Howard, Hawke, Carr and Menzies was/is not democratic and claiming it was just weakens the concept of democracy.

Democracy is nothing but mob rule. The way our system and the American system tame it is the remarkable thing about it. More often than not, it's about preventing such simple majorities from determining serious issues and preservting institutional memory and experience. Change should only be brought about by overwhelming public outcry and the system needs safeguards from the fickle public if you plan on having an effective governmnet

 

[Lentern]

Democracy is nothing but mob rule. The way our system and the American system tame it is the remarkable thing about it. More often than not, it's about preventing such simple majorities from determining serious issues and preservting institutional memory and experience. Change should only be brought about by overwhelming public outcry and the system needs safeguards from the fickle public if you plan on having an effective governmnet

I'm quite fond of the mob, we should let them rule. Let's not getting into some airy fairy "all systems of government have their faults" lofty rhetoric, I've heard it dozens of times before. I'm a fan of proportial representation, shoot me for it.

 

[SnowFox]

I heard the Australian navy sucks right now in terms of size and power, why not build a few naval yards around Oz, employee workers, send the ships off to stop the crazy japs whaling in our waters.

Or they can pay someone to redesign our military weapons or provide more research into our stealth detection radar (We can pick up B52 stealth bombers).

 

[moll.]

I heard the Australian navy sucks right now in terms of size and power, why not build a few naval yards around Oz, employee workers, send the ships off to stop the crazy japs whaling in our waters.

Or they can pay someone to redesign our military weapons or provide more research into our stealth detection radar (We can pick up B52 stealth bombers).

Or we can pay some third world sucker to do the exact same job for one-twentieth of the price. Hmmm...

 

[Silver Persian]

I would like to stimulate moll's package

 

[zstar]

Japan has an SDF (self defense forces) but it is forbidden for them to engage in any activity outside defending Japan however this is quickly changing.

They've already deployed troops in iraq and now they're deploying ships to combat Somalian pirates and I they're also gearing up to take on North Korea.