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UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid' (2 Viewers)

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JaredR

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It could be argued that the Palestinians were disadvantaged prior to the creation of the State of Israel. Let it be noted that prior to the creation of Israel it was known as the British Mandate of Palestine.

The Palestinians have never had their own government, only now do they have an authority (Palestinian Authority) which currently controls 97% of the Gaza Strip and much of the West Bank. Unfortunately, the authority is corrupt and much of international aid is used for the senior officials.

Also, please don't forget that Palestinians weren't exiled from Israel unlike the Jews from the Muslim nations after the creation of Israel. Many Palestinians chose to stay (Israeli-Arabs) and many fled after fear was insighted in them by Islamic superiors.

Also note those that left had no where to go. :) Despite the apparent support from surrounging Arabic nations it's interesting to note that none actually accepted Palestinian refugees, thus why they now find themselves placed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip which was administered to by Jordan and Egypt until they got silly and tried to war against Israel. The land was occupied following the subsequent war when Israel pushed back.

Standards in the Palestinian regions has been enhanced since Israel took control.

--------

Please don't misinterpret what I have said: I do sympathise with the Palestinian cause, but don't make yourself ignorant by believing that the problem arose from the formation of the State of Israel. It existed a long time prior.
 

S1M0

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For heaven's sake, this has gone on for far enough....

I'm going to sleep.
 

marwanjamiel

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The Palestinians have never had their own government, only now do they have an authority (Palestinian Authority) which currently controls 97% of the Gaza Strip and much of the West Bank. Unfortunately, the authority is corrupt and much of international aid is used for the senior officials.
Yes, however if you look before the Turkish and British colonisations, you find that it is the Arabs who had the last legitamite hold of the Land of Palestine. I am a Pan-Arabist, and believe all Arab nations should merge into one. It wasn't us who divided ourselves after all. Therefore, it does not matter to me whether or not it is called Palestine or whatever, I only care that the rightful owners, the Arabs, control it.

Also, please don't forget that Palestinians weren't exiled from Israel unlike the Jews from the Muslim nations after the creation of Israel. Many Palestinians chose to stay (Israeli-Arabs) and many fled after fear was insighted in them by Islamic superiors.
Many Arabs were also subject to ethnic cleansing. You should also remember that most Jews left by choice, countries such as Iraq in fact made it ILLEGAL for Jews to immigrate to Israel because they feared they would strengthen the state, which they did.

Also note those that left had no where to go. :) Despite the apparent support from surrounging Arabic nations it's interesting to note that none actually accepted Palestinian refugees, thus why they now find themselves placed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip which was administered to by Jordan and Egypt until they got silly and tried to war against Israel. The land was occupied following the subsequent war when Israel pushed back.
Untrue, Jordan has taken in so many Palestinians that there are more Palestinians than Jordanians in Jordan. This is quite a step for a nation like Jordan, which is undergoing a water shortage crisis far more severe than the one in NSW right now, one that could result in Jordan simply drying up.
Also, it would be morally wise, but political suicide, to take in the Palestinian refugees. By taking them in, Israel would argue that the problem no longer exists, further attempting to legitamise itself.

Standards in the Palestinian regions has been enhanced since Israel took control.
Standards of Living in the entire world have increased over the past 40 years. Also, the Standard of Living of Israel is much much higher than that of the occupied territories. The same goes for the standard of living in Israeli settlements inside the occupied territories.
 

Aryanbeauty

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S1M0 said:
Heh, you're pathethic. Your blind hatred of arabs just serves you to make such faceless, racist comments like "you arabs are not meant to in Australia/Europe/America. Yeah mate, my parents like here, my parents obey the law, are decent, so who the fuck are you to come here and start telling me that we're not meant to be here?

I was born in australia, you weren't. I'm an australian, you're just some sad, sad, kid who should just shut up from here on out. End this stupid argument, and mods, please stop this thread. Its gone on far enough.
And who the fuck are you to tell us Israel is not meant to be in the Middle East? Who is more sad case than one who cannot accept that Israel will always be in the middle east and Israel will always defeat arabs countries? Learn the lesson from the past 50 years.

marwanjamiel said:
Now lets see how your argument, the one you were confident enough to give a :rofl:, stands. You are comparing apples with oranges here. Jews have all the right to live in the Middle East, they have for centuries. However they do not have the right to FOUND A COUNTRY there, in the same way that I cannot found Iraqalia here. I live here, as does my family, as law abiding AUSTRALIANS. We ASKED to come here, and we were allowed. We did not come by the boat-full to Sydney harbour, and then start attacking any people who did not accept us, which is what the Israelis did. Notice that I did not say "Jews don't belong in the Middle East", I said "ISRAEL doesn't belong in the Middle East". Really your own sig says it all. Look at how many Arab countries there are, and then theres this tiny Jewish country right in the middle, how did it get there, its simply bizarre. Its like having an African country in the middle of Europe, however it got there, it would have been out of the ordinary, it definitely is not its "rightful place".
Jews have the right to found a country in the middle east, in fact have more right than any other arab nations in the middle east. And where does arabs came from?Arabia? Who gives arabs the rights to come to Israel and attack the jews and then rule over the land?

Jews did not went to Israel and then start attacking arabs, they were attacking arabs once arabs delcared war on them as historical records showed that All violence and wars in the middle east were and are always started by arabs and they always lose the wars as well. :D

1. For Political reason Israel have more rights than arabs to be in Israel because UN gave Israel to Israelis with the world agreeing to it.

Regarding, germany. Israel was promised to jews long before Hitler persecuted jews and there was World War 2. Whether or not Hitler persecuted the jews the state of Israel would be created. It has been the main issue and goal of Zionist since 1900 before world War 1 and WW2.

3.Legally, Israel have the same right as Palestine because the land was divided by UN and that is Legal. The occupation of west Bank and Gaza are legal because they are seized after Wars started by arabs. Losers should pay the price either with money or by land. That is International Law, as we have seen in 1st WW and 2nd WW that losers in a war have to pay reparation or have their country occupied.

2. For religious reason, Jews have more rights to be in Israel than arabs. The Bible says the land was given to the jews by God. That is for christian and jews believers. The Quran says the land is given to Jews by Allah. That is for islamic believers. If you disagreed with that then you are an apostate that needs to be stoned to death under Islamic Law.


One thing I do not appreciate is you calling me a "Coward Arab." That is a catagoric racial slur, and really, you should be punished for something like that. You also jump to many conclusions regarding my political beliefs. You need to stop and realize that not all Arabs have the same views, and you should not assume I have those views. Since when did I whine about losing a war? Since when did I choose fighting over peace? When you argue against that person, don't try to somehow feed their viewpoints to them.
Truth hurts is nt it? If you arabs are that brave then how can a nation of less than 10 million continously defeated arab countries with population more than 500 million? You can choose your reason if COWARD hurt you so much, perhaps "not man enough to fight", "backward" "not fit to fight" "craven' 'Dastard" 'recreant' you can pick one that makes you feel better. Oh why do you complain about Israel being created in the middle east? Because you are an arab arent ya even though Israel did not share an inch of border with Iraq, your former country Iraq declare war on Israel each time Syria and Egypt went to war. All arabs do not have the same views neither the jews but you do share the same views as those of Islamic Terrorist such as Hizbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad regarding the creation of Israel and its existence. And that is what I am attacking.
 

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Aryanbeauty said:
All violence and wars in the middle east were and are always started by arabs and they always lose the wars as well.
That's like saying most of the wars in Europe were started by Europeans.
 

marwanjamiel

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Aryanbeauty said:
And who the fuck are you to tell us Israel is not meant to be in the Middle East? Who is more sad case than one who cannot accept that Israel will always be in the middle east and Israel will always defeat arabs countries? Learn the lesson from the past 50 years.
Israel will not always be in the Middle East and will not always defeat the Arab countries. Who the "fuck" am I? I am simply showing an arguement as to why Isrel is not meant to be in the middle East, you did not counter my arguement but went straight to the unbased comments. One thing I know is that 50 years is not a long enough time to predict the entire future of the world.

Jews have the right to found a country in the middle east, in fact have more right than any other arab nations in the middle east. And where does arabs came from?Arabia? Who gives arabs the rights to come to Israel and attack the jews and then rule over the land?
We never came to Israel to attack the Jews. Arabs have lived in the Land of Palestine for over a thousand years, LONG after the Jews had left. It was the Jews who came and attacked the Arabs and then ruled over the land.

Jews did not went to Israel and then start attacking arabs, they were attacking arabs once arabs delcared war on them as historical records showed that All violence and wars in the middle east were and are always started by arabs and they always lose the wars as well. :D
This shows that you have a very Social Darwinist view of the world, a view that was one of the causes of WWI. We must remember that Jews invaded Palestine not by the force of weaponry, but by the force of mass immigration. This has the same goals and objectives as a military occupation, but it is undertaken by civilians. Strictly speaking, those civilians are taking part in an occupation, and are therefore legitamite targets.

1. For Political reason Israel have more rights than arabs to be in Israel because UN gave Israel to Israelis with the world agreeing to it.
No, the UN gave Israel about half the land it currently holds. If Israel is not going to abide by the UN partition plan, it should not try to use that law to legitamise itself.

Regarding, germany. Israel was promised to jews long before Hitler persecuted jews and there was World War 2. Whether or not Hitler persecuted the jews the state of Israel would be created. It has been the main issue and goal of Zionist since 1900 before world War 1 and WW2.
The promises were not concrete or very serious, mainstream issues that were taken very seriously. They had not even decided WHERE to found it. Whether it be Argentina, Uganda or Palestine.

3.Legally, Israel have the same right as Palestine because the land was divided by UN and that is Legal. The occupation of west Bank and Gaza are legal because they are seized after Wars started by arabs. Losers should pay the price either with money or by land. That is International Law, as we have seen in 1st WW and 2nd WW that losers in a war have to pay reparation or have their country occupied.
The reparations of WWI were what resulted in the German economic crises, resulting in the rise of Hitler and eventually WWII. It showed that reparations simply INCREASE the chances of another war. Also, Germany and Japan were occupied only in the short term in order to organise the countries back together. There certainly were not settlements being built in order to make the occupation permanent through civilian occupation.

2. For religious reason, Jews have more rights to be in Israel than arabs. The Bible says the land was given to the jews by God. That is for christian and jews believers. The Quran says the land is given to Jews by Allah. That is for islamic believers. If you disagreed with that then you are an apostate that needs to be stoned to death under Islamic Law.
Being someone who has read the Quran, I challenge you to find where it says the land was given to the Jews. Also, religion has no place in modern political debate. As I have stated before, this is a political and legal disagreement, not the religious one people believe it is.

Truth hurts is nt it? If you arabs are that brave then how can a nation of less than 10 million continously defeated arab countries with population more than 500 million? You can choose your reason if COWARD hurt you so much, perhaps "not man enough to fight", "backward" "not fit to fight" "craven' 'Dastard" 'recreant' you can pick one that makes you feel better. Oh why do you complain about Israel being created in the middle east? Because you are an arab arent ya even though Israel did not share an inch of border with Iraq, your former country Iraq declare war on Israel each time Syria and Egypt went to war. All arabs do not have the same views neither the jews but you do share the same views as those of Islamic Terrorist such as Hizbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad regarding the creation of Israel and its existence. And that is what I am attacking.
Yes, it is because I am a proud Arab. When you say "because you are an arab arent ya" you say it like it is a crime. I am a Pan-Arabist, and simply believe that I cannot stay silent while Palestinians suffer injustice after injustice saying "Thats different, I'm from Iraq". The concept of Pan-Arabism is the rejection of British and French divisions of the Arab World and the belief that all Arabs are one (which we are). Hence, Palestinian problems are my problems.

I am sure Hizbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad also share many other views that are similar to mine, however none of those views are what makes them terrorists. They are terrorists because they believe in VIOLENCE to achieve their goals. Not unlike Israel, which uses violence in the form of war (what it calls bravery) to achieve its goals of the destruction of the PALESTINIAN state.
 

Aryanbeauty

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marwanjamiel said:
Israel will not always be in the Middle East and will not always defeat the Arab countries. Who the "fuck" am I? I am simply showing an arguement as to why Isrel is not meant to be in the middle East, you did not counter my arguement but went straight to the unbased comments. One thing I know is that 50 years is not a long enough time to predict the entire future of the world.
You are entitled to dream that one day israel may cease to exist as you wish. There is nothing worth countering in your argument which is based on dreams. Yeah continue another 50 years of violence against Israel there might not be enough arabs to claim palestine then :D



We never came to Israel to attack the Jews. Arabs have lived in the Land of Palestine for over a thousand years, LONG after the Jews had left. It was the Jews who came and attacked the Arabs and then ruled over the land.
Arabs lived in Israel for a thousand years, jews lived in israel for over two thousand and five hundred years. It was arabs islamic invaders that came to Israel while the land was under various empire, the main people that live in there were jews, be it Greek, Roman, Persian or Byzantine empire the majority of people living there were jews. Then came Isalmic invaders Caliph Omar to be precise, then came with him were arabs. So you arabs were clearly outsiders that came and conquer Israel/palestine and then occupy it. Even under islamic rulers of Mamaluk and Ottoman Empire, jews always lived in the land. Therefore it belongs to them.

This shows that you have a very Social Darwinist view of the world, a view that was one of the causes of WWI. We must remember that Jews invaded Palestine not by the force of weaponry, but by the force of mass immigration. This has the same goals and objectives as a military occupation, but it is undertaken by civilians. Strictly speaking, those civilians are taking part in an occupation, and are therefore legitamite targets.
Since you arabs are mass migrating to Israel/palestine except it was long time ago. Cant we classify as you are doing exactly the same as the one you accused jews of doing it? Therefore arabs are legitimate target for Israelis too eh?



No, the UN gave Israel about half the land it currently holds. If Israel is not going to abide by the UN partition plan, it should not try to use that law to legitamise itself.
You are wrong, Israel agreed with UN partition Plan and arabs rejected it. The rest is history with various wars started by arabs and losing it.



The promises were not concrete or very serious, mainstream issues that were taken very seriously. They had not even decided WHERE to found it. Whether it be Argentina, Uganda or Palestine.
Is this not Concrete

The first is the Balfour Declaration of 1917: An official letter from the British Foreign Office headed by Arthur Balfour, the UK's Foreign Secretary (from December 1916 to October 1919), to Lord Rothschild, who was seen as a representative of the Jewish people. The letter stated that the British government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Seems like they already decided the place in 1917 :rofl: contrary to your assertion.

The reparations of WWI were what resulted in the German economic crises, resulting in the rise of Hitler and eventually WWII. It showed that reparations simply INCREASE the chances of another war. Also, Germany and Japan were occupied only in the short term in order to organise the countries back together. There certainly were not settlements being built in order to make the occupation permanent through civilian occupation.
Whether reparations are bad or not, Victors have the right to occupy and appropriate the lands because they are Victorious. Losers have no rights except whine. That is the law of nature, the law of war that has been followed throughout history. Israel does not intend to occupy the palestinian areas forever, but until violence stop then it have to do what it needs to do to protect its citizens from murderous terrorists who have nothin to do better than blowing up jet plane, schools and buses.


Being someone who has read the Quran, I challenge you to find where it says the land was given to the Jews. Also, religion has no place in modern political debate. As I have stated before, this is a political and legal disagreement, not the religious one people believe it is.
challenge accomplished
SHAKIR: And when Musa said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations.
005.021
YUSUFALI: "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
PICKTHAL: O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers:
SHAKIR: O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers.
Quran Chapter 5 verse 20-21 to be precise. Is nt it Apostasy to challenge Quran for muslims? :D

Even if it is Legal, Israel is created by UN resolution On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. :D That is Legal.

Politically Israel is created with the support of all world political leaders of that time, USA, USSR, UK, France etc agreeing to it. What more support could you get.



Yes, it is because I am a proud Arab. When you say "because you are an arab arent ya" you say it like it is a crime. I am a Pan-Arabist, and simply believe that I cannot stay silent while Palestinians suffer injustice after injustice saying "Thats different, I'm from Iraq". The concept of Pan-Arabism is the rejection of British and French divisions of the Arab World and the belief that all Arabs are one (which we are). Hence, Palestinian problems are my problems.
Thats your perception of being called an arab. And yes you identify arab with crime and that is not surprising. More evidence of you are more of a dreamer than a person who actually see the reality. When was the last time arab countries United? 1000 years ago? It was not french or brits who divided arab world, arab world was already under various independent rulers long before europeans intervened. Actually Arabs world was ruled for almost 1000 years by guess what? Turkish! Palestinian arabs are bringing those problems unto themselves and therefore they deserve it.

I am sure Hizbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad also share many other views that are similar to mine, however none of those views are what makes them terrorists. They are terrorists because they believe in VIOLENCE to achieve their goals. Not unlike Israel, which uses violence in the form of war (what it calls bravery) to achieve its goals of the destruction of the PALESTINIAN state.
destruction of palestinian state? I don't remember Palestinian state being formed or destroyed. It never existed. Since independence Israel was fighting Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan can you tell me when was palestinian state formed and destroyed :rofl:
 
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JaredR

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Gunmen attempt to kidnap UN refugee mission chief in Gaza

By The Associated Press

Three masked Palestinian gunmen fired on a vehicle carrying the chief of the UN refugee mission in Gaza and tried to kidnap him, the UN official said.

"No one was hurt in the kidnap attempt in northern Gaza," said John Ging, head of the UN Relief and Works Agency in Gaza.

Earlier in the week, unidentified gunmen kidnapped a BBC reporter in Gaza City, Alan Johnston, who remains in captivity, his whereabouts unknown.

Ging said he, a driver and a security official were traveling in an armored vehicle when the gunmen jumped out of a white Subaru and opened fire.

"They tried to force open the car, but our driver extracted himself from that situation, and sped away as the gunmen continued firing," he said.

"This is a shocking development. We are still considering how to deal with this," Ging said.

The vehicle was clearly marked with the UN insignia and a UN flag, he
said. Eleven bullets pierced the car, Ging added.

The incident took place about one kilometer from the Erez passenger crossing into Israel, he said.

No one HAS claimed responsibility.

In the past 18 months, more than a dozen foreign journalists and aid workers have been abducted in Gaza, an area plagued by crime, political violence and lawlessness. Most of the kidnappings have been carried out by gunmen seeking favors from the government or trying to settle scores with rivals.

In most cases, victims have been released unharmed within hours.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/838666.html

Yep, they're really going to get their way doing this. Palestine's worst enemy is some of it's own people. :)
 

S1M0

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Aryanbeauty said:
And who the fuck are you to tell us Israel is not meant to be in the Middle East? Who is more sad case than one who cannot accept that Israel will always be in the middle east and Israel will always defeat arabs countries? Learn the lesson from the past 50 years.
And where and when did i say that? I have no problems with Israel being in the middle east, whats done is done i guess, i have a problem with how you're treating Palestininans, and how you're treating Israeli-arabs.

Just keep spreading your bullshit buddy, and see what happens.

*sic*Jews have the right to found a country in the middle east, in fact have more right than any other arab nations in the middle east.*sic*
No they don't, especially when it means its taking land off someone else, so what, the jews have some sort of special right? Get out of here.
 

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JaredR said:
I not only call for the closing of this thread but the banning of AryanBeauty, One can read most, if not all posts that he makes and see in them a deep underlying hatred of Arabs.

He is a bigot, and it is these qualities in him that he hates of Muslims (meaning the few extremist Muslims who teach Anti-Australian sentiment) He is exactly them, just a different religion. It is uncalled for, and certainly not justified.

The Australian Jewish community along with the world Jewish community does not condone, endorse or advocate the rantings of AryanBeauty. He neither speaks for the interests of Israel or the Jewish people.

Opinion Polls in Israel show the Prime Minister's approval rating at 3% meaning 97% don't like him. He plumetted after the Lebanon-Israel war last year.

The Israeli community wants peace. No person or country enjoys being in a hostile situation and near constantly at war with people. Israel is the same.

Freedom of Speech on Bored of Studies is a privilege not a right in my opinion. And just as in our society, too much speech can get you in a lot of trouble, the same should extend to these forums. I maintain that AryanBeauty should be banned. :)
I think Aryanbeauty is representative of Jews in general. All jews behave and have an attitude similar to that of Aryanbeauty.
 
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HotShot said:
I think Aryanbeauty is representative of Jews in general. All jews behave and have an attitude similar to that of Aryanbeauty.
I think Hotshot is a representative of muslim, all muslim have similar attitude towards jews and westerners and other religion regardless of their country of origin.
 

marwanjamiel

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Aryanbeauty said:
You are entitled to dream that one day israel may cease to exist as you wish. There is nothing worth countering in your argument which is based on dreams. Yeah continue another 50 years of violence against Israel there might not be enough arabs to claim palestine then :D
See here you go again. Remember, all nations cease to exist eventually. Also remember, I NEVER SAID I SUPPORT VIOLENCE. So don't tell me that I wish to commit to another 50 years of violence.

Arabs lived in Israel for a thousand years, jews lived in israel for over two thousand and five hundred years. It was arabs islamic invaders that came to Israel while the land was under various empire, the main people that live in there were jews, be it Greek, Roman, Persian or Byzantine empire the majority of people living there were jews. Then came Isalmic invaders Caliph Omar to be precise, then came with him were arabs. So you arabs were clearly outsiders that came and conquer Israel/palestine and then occupy it. Even under islamic rulers of Mamaluk and Ottoman Empire, jews always lived in the land. Therefore it belongs to them.
Yes, but there was a 1000 year gap between these times. The vast majority of Jews had left to go around the world. It was not like Jews were reminicing on the "good times" in the land, they had abandoned it. Jews had lived under the Caliphs, however they took up a very small portion of the population. Arguing that it belongs to them is like me arguing that Sydney belongs to the Lebanese.

Since you arabs are mass migrating to Israel/palestine except it was long time ago. Cant we classify as you are doing exactly the same as the one you accused jews of doing it? Therefore arabs are legitimate target for Israelis too eh?
Yes exactly, it was a long time ago, and they would have been legitamite targets for Jews. But they weren't targetted. The Jews accepted our presence there, this was at a time when we were allies, with the Arabs being the stronger half.

You are wrong, Israel agreed with UN partition Plan and arabs rejected it. The rest is history with various wars started by arabs and losing it.
Of course we rejected it. The world was trying to use Arabs as a tool to save them from their own holocaust guilt. The fact was that, as small as any Israeli state would have been, we were losing our rightful territory. Do not forget that the majority of people living there at the time were Arabs, all the nations in that region are Arabs. It was foolish to go ahead and found a Jewish state without the backing of the Arabs, as it was self evident that there was going to be a continuous cycle of chaos.

Is this not Concrete

The first is the Balfour Declaration of 1917: An official letter from the British Foreign Office headed by Arthur Balfour, the UK's Foreign Secretary (from December 1916 to October 1919), to Lord Rothschild, who was seen as a representative of the Jewish people. The letter stated that the British government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Seems like they already decided the place in 1917 :rofl: contrary to your assertion.
Notice the weakness with an agreement like that. This was made when Britain controlled Palestine as a mandate, but used it as a colony. An agreement like that was bilateral between the European country Britain and the Jewish people. It left out the opinion of the vast majority of people living there at the time, that was the Arabs.

Whether reparations are bad or not, Victors have the right to occupy and appropriate the lands because they are Victorious. Losers have no rights except whine. That is the law of nature, the law of war that has been followed throughout history. Israel does not intend to occupy the palestinian areas forever, but until violence stop then it have to do what it needs to do to protect its citizens from murderous terrorists who have nothin to do better than blowing up jet plane, schools and buses.
Once again, you are going into imperialistic, militaristic, and social Darwinist theory. The world is not survival of the fittest, where the strongest nations can occupy others and act however they wish. If you believe you know the "law of war", you would know that there is also resistance. When Israel uses its own citizens as soldiers to assist in occupation, then resistance against that is fair, as Israel is using civilians to shield itself from the consequences of its crimes. If Israel does not intend to occupy the Palestinian areas forever, then explain why settlements have been developed there, and have continued to be developed at the fastest rate possible?

challenge accomplished Quran Chapter 5 verse 20-21 to be precise. Is nt it Apostasy to challenge Quran for muslims? :D
WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? It is not apostasy to challenge Quran for Muslims, however I take offense when you simply make up verses in the Quran. Obviously you didn't think it through, and didn't realise that I in fact have a Quran, and its in English too. This is Quran Chapter 5 verse 20-21:

"For with God is the soverignty of the Heavens and of the Earth, and of all that is between them! He createth what He will; and over all things is God potent.
Say the Jews and Christians, "Sons are we of God and his Beloved". Say: Why then doth he chastise you for your sins? Nay! Ye are but a part of the men whom he hath created! He will pardon whom he pleaseth, and chastise whom he pleaseth, and with God is the soverignty of the heavens and of the Earth, and all the things between them, and unto him shall all things return"

I do not know whether you made up your quote, or whether you got it off a radical zionist source that wishes to legitamise Israel using our own Quran. Either way, its incorrect. Besides, if you knew anything about the Quran, you would know that it is not written as a drama script with everyones lines and their name in front.
Even if it is Legal, Israel is created by UN resolution On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. :D That is Legal.

Politically Israel is created with the support of all world political leaders of that time, USA, USSR, UK, France etc agreeing to it. What more support could you get.
The support of the MAJORITY LIVING THERE. That is, the Arabs. You should also remember that the UK, USA and France were looking to shed their war guilt after the holocaust. You should also know that the USSR was trying to use it to get rid of its own Jewish population.

Thats your perception of being called an arab. And yes you identify arab with crime and that is not surprising. More evidence of you are more of a dreamer than a person who actually see the reality. When was the last time arab countries United? 1000 years ago? It was not french or brits who divided arab world, arab world was already under various independent rulers long before europeans intervened. Actually Arabs world was ruled for almost 1000 years by guess what? Turkish! Palestinian arabs are bringing those problems unto themselves and therefore they deserve it.
No, I am quite proud of being an Arab. That is why I have an Iraqi flag hanging on my wall. The fact was that your implications in the sentence "its because you're an arab arent ya" is similar to the sentence, "you're gay aren't ya" or "you're a rapist aren't ya". Using "aren't ya" to end a sentence cannot be used in a positive light.
The Arabs were last united before the Mongol invasion. We have lived as colonies ever since, however we have stayed where we are, waiting for our freedom so that we can unite. Unluckily, the Europeans came and divided us to their pleasing. There is nothing extreme or unrealistic about Pan-Arabism, it is only natural that in a world of nationstates, those of the same ethnic group unite into a single nation. People such as Bismarck united the Germans into one state after years of conflict and war between one another, and he is seen as one of the greatest Germans in history. The same can be done for the Arabs.

destruction of palestinian state? I don't remember Palestinian state being formed or destroyed. It never existed. Since independence Israel was fighting Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan can you tell me when was palestinian state formed and destroyed :rofl:
You could say that the UN partition plan, if you believe that is what created Israel, also created a Palestinian state at the same time. To me, it does not matter whether Palestine is a part of Egypt or Jordan, or whether it is on its own, as long as Arabs are leading and protecting the Arabs.
 

HotShot

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Indian Princess said:
I think Hotshot is a representative of muslim, all muslim have similar attitude towards jews and westerners and other religion regardless of their country of origin.
So its you vs me then?

Jews vs REST OF THE WORLD?

fine/.
 

un 1

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Indian Princess said:
I think Hotshot is a representative of muslim, all muslim have similar attitude towards jews and westerners and other religion regardless of their country of origin.
I think Indian Princess is a representative of a Hindu, all Hindus have similar attitudes to christians, jews and muslims.
certain factors misconstrue our judgements, in this instance we see that muslima nad hindu's have a very poor relationship.

Its good that christians and jews are not caught up in this mess.
You have to be realistic, jews are extremely successful, hard working individuals who have taken a monopoly control over the world's revenues, resources and current affairs, it wuld be stupid to mess with a jew, being the superior race they have been gifted in the way that they rule the world,
Well Done":)

however, a problem arises when other beliefs such as islam and hinduism and buddhism and christianity conflict with these ideals and with each otheres.

Lets just hope for some peace in the world.
 

bored6

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un said:
being the superior race they have been gifted in the way that they rule the world,
Im sorry?

Your clearly kidding yourself. The likes of Ayranbeauty and his other account IndianPrincess have clearly demonstrated Jewish people are in no way superior to any other race, intellectually or otherwise.
 

S1M0

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un said:
being the superior race they have been gifted in the way that they rule the world,
Everything was good in your post except for this idiotic statement.
 

JaredR

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I question AryanBeauty's Jewishness or Israeli Citizenship.

In his warped mind he could be an opposer of Israel and the Jews and has created this whole extremly Anti-Arabic, Anti-Islamic identity to misrepresent the Jewish people.
 
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JaredR said:
I question AryanBeauty's Jewishness or Israeli Citizenship.

In his warped mind he could be an opposer of Israel and the Jews and has created this whole extremly Anti-Arabic, Anti-Islamic identity to misrepresent the Jewish people.
I was thinking the same thing:eek:

He just seems like he is trying really hard at making Israel look really bad.

Can you all stop with the "they are crap, we are good" thing you're on about. Nobody is better than anyone else, you're all the equal.
 
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marwanjamiel said:
See here you go again. Remember, all nations cease to exist eventually. Also remember, I NEVER SAID I SUPPORT VIOLENCE. So don't tell me that I wish to commit to another 50 years of violence.
Britain has been existing for more than 1000 years and is still the greatest country in the world. You arabs may cease to exist but Israel wont, thanks to allah's protection from murderous terrorists. You don't support violence but support those who commit violence :D



Yes, but there was a 1000 year gap between these times. The vast majority of Jews had left to go around the world. It was not like Jews were reminicing on the "good times" in the land, they had abandoned it. Jews had lived under the Caliphs, however they took up a very small portion of the population. Arguing that it belongs to them is like me arguing that Sydney belongs to the Lebanese.
Israel/Palestine always have jewish population since 2500 years ago large or small , they have the right to form their own government. Whether they left israel or abandon it, does not give arabs exclisive rights. If arabs can conquer and claim Plaestine, so can jews conquer and claim the lands that have been their since 2500 years ago. There was no such 1000 gaps, even under ottoman jews always lived there except they have been outnumbered by arabs.


Yes exactly, it was a long time ago, and they would have been legitamite targets for Jews. But they weren't targetted. The Jews accepted our presence there, this was at a time when we were allies, with the Arabs being the stronger half.
They never accepted your presence, they were forced to accept outsiders rule and occupation because of Arab/mameluk and Ottoman conquest. Just like Israel now got the land, by force. If any arab occupations were legal so is the current Israeli occupation.



Of course we rejected it. The world was trying to use Arabs as a tool to save them from their own holocaust guilt. The fact was that, as small as any Israeli state would have been, we were losing our rightful territory. Do not forget that the majority of people living there at the time were Arabs, all the nations in that region are Arabs. It was foolish to go ahead and found a Jewish state without the backing of the Arabs, as it was self evident that there was going to be a continuous cycle of chaos.
Israel was assigned to jews 20 years before hollocaust by the British whether hollocaust occur or not is irrelevant. It was only a catalyst in its formation, speeding up the process.



Notice the weakness with an agreement like that. This was made when Britain controlled Palestine as a mandate, but used it as a colony. An agreement like that was bilateral between the European country Britain and the Jewish people. It left out the opinion of the vast majority of people living there at the time, that was the Arabs.
It is well known that arabs will not accept jewish state on the other hand jewish interest were more important to the world powers than that of arabs. That does not give arabs absolute power to deny the formation of israel.


Once again, you are going into imperialistic, militaristic, and social Darwinist theory. The world is not survival of the fittest, where the strongest nations can occupy others and act however they wish. If you believe you know the "law of war", you would know that there is also resistance. When Israel uses its own citizens as soldiers to assist in occupation, then resistance against that is fair, as Israel is using civilians to shield itself from the consequences of its crimes. If Israel does not intend to occupy the Palestinian areas forever, then explain why settlements have been developed there, and have continued to be developed at the fastest rate possible?
The law of war is that fighters fight eachother, if arabs want to follow the laws of war then why not fight Israeli soldeirs instead of blowing up buses, jet plane, school and cafe? If 3 million arabs can live inside Israel peacefully why cant israelis inside palestinian areas? Wanna swap settlements in palestine and arabs population inside Israel? :D

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? It is not apostasy to challenge Quran for Muslims, however I take offense when you simply make up verses in the Quran. Obviously you didn't think it through, and didn't realise that I in fact have a Quran, and its in English too. This is Quran Chapter 5 verse 20-21:

"For with God is the soverignty of the Heavens and of the Earth, and of all that is between them! He createth what He will; and over all things is God potent.
Say the Jews and Christians, "Sons are we of God and his Beloved". Say: Why then doth he chastise you for your sins? Nay! Ye are but a part of the men whom he hath created! He will pardon whom he pleaseth, and chastise whom he pleaseth, and with God is the soverignty of the heavens and of the Earth, and all the things between them, and unto him shall all things return"

I do not know whether you made up your quote, or whether you got it off a radical zionist source that wishes to legitamise Israel using our own Quran. Either way, its incorrect. Besides, if you knew anything about the Quran, you would know that it is not written as a drama script with everyones lines and their name in front.
Aha a muslim person who don't even know whats written inside his Quran.


005.021
YUSUFALI: "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
PICKTHAL: O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers:
SHAKIR: O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html
Those are interpretation of various Islamic scholars, idiot, no one said it is like a drama script.
More here From theHolyquran.org
20. And when Musa said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations.

21. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers.http://www.theholyquran.org/?x=s_main&y=s_middle&kid=15&sid=5
More from a muslim website of Quran translation online

005.020 Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.
005.021 "O my people! Enter the holy land which God hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin."
http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran5.html


You need to read your own Quran before you embarass yourself again. For your Information Criticism of Quran or Muhammad is Apostasy and Blasphemy punishable by Death in most islamic countries And remeber that before you critisize about state of Israel, Because it is assinged to jews according to your own God's word.
The support of the MAJORITY LIVING THERE. That is, the Arabs. You should also remember that the UK, USA and France were looking to shed their war guilt after the holocaust. You should also know that the USSR was trying to use it to get rid of its own Jewish population.
UK USA and France does not have any War guilt, they were not the one who persecute jews. If it was any to feel guilty it should be Germany and Nazi colloborators in various countries. USSR never tried to get rid of its jewish population, In fact it banned Jews from immigrating into Israel and prohibited them from leaving USSR. Most Jews from USSR immigrated to Israel only after 1985 when Soviet Union began liberalization and disintegrate in 1991.



No, I am quite proud of being an Arab. That is why I have an Iraqi flag hanging on my wall. The fact was that your implications in the sentence "its because you're an arab arent ya" is similar to the sentence, "you're gay aren't ya" or "you're a rapist aren't ya". Using "aren't ya" to end a sentence cannot be used in a positive light.
So proud and arrogant that you cannot accept defeat by israel even after 50 years.
The Arabs were last united before the Mongol invasion. We have lived as colonies ever since, however we have stayed where we are, waiting for our freedom so that we can unite. Unluckily, the Europeans came and divided us to their pleasing. There is nothing extreme or unrealistic about Pan-Arabism, it is only natural that in a world of nationstates, those of the same ethnic group unite into a single nation. People such as Bismarck united the Germans into one state after years of conflict and war between one another, and he is seen as one of the greatest Germans in history. The same can be done for the Arabs.
Very very few arabs a united pan arab country. In fact they hate eachother, the only thing that unite them is their common hatred of state of Israel. Egypt and Syria tried to form a United Arab Republic in 1958, it did not even last for 3 years because the they cannot tolerate each other's stench. None of the arab countries have good relations with each other, they all hate eachother, and suspect eachother and treat eachother with distrust. LOL they cannot even hold an Arab league meeting because of rivalry and hatred between various arabs leaders such as Gadhaffi of Lybia, Mubarak of Egypt and Saddam (RIP) of Iraq, Bashir of Syria, Abdullah of Jordan and Saudi Crown prince all anting to be the leader of arab world. Even if you cannot unite for a common enemy, yeah keep dreaming about Pan arab nation which will never exist. Don't even compare Pan-Arab with Germany.



You could say that the UN partition plan, if you believe that is what created Israel, also created a Palestinian state at the same time. To me, it does not matter whether Palestine is a part of Egypt or Jordan, or whether it is on its own, as long as Arabs are leading and protecting the Arabs.
Sorry I dont remember Palestine being recognised by UN :confused: it was only given OBSERVER status. USA, UK and your own country AUSTRALIA does not recognise the existence of such state called Palestine :rofl:
 
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