Unionists (1 Viewer)

[biggles04]

union membership has been steadily declining and this means that as a whole the relationship between employees and employers is strong. There is no need for an employee or the union to be greedy, and continue demanding higher wages unless their is a cause for their need - this along with overregulating workplace conditions causes employers to fear the process of hiring an employee. And most small businesses will just not hire as a result.

Sadly when these unions no longer have members and can no longer perform their duties then you're all fucked. including me.

 

[soha]

i know and understand my rights

 

[biggles04]

1. this supervisor keeps stealing and im too scares to dob her in

I would gladly report them. How long have you been working there? They will need someone to replace them. Could be you. Report.

2.these people keep bludging at work and they piss me off?

Happens in all supermarkets - you can't do anything about it, some people are like that. Infact, you'll find, a lot of people are like that. All you can do is get pissed off and eventually have I go at them like I once did. There were these two fill guys who would stand around talking and get about 3 trolleys worth of stuff, between them, onto the shelves in about 4 hours. I had a huge fucking brawl at them swearing my head off...Then the store manager walked past...backed up...heard what I was saying...I never did see those two again actually...I wonder what happened to them? Who cares, it got me department manager.

 

[soha]

well its always the same people bludging their asses off...doing jack shit..and they get away with it
they walk around talking and acting like morons...doing little "jobs"..that are pethetic excuses to do nothing

i feel silly complaining..
but the supervisor who steals..im worried if i tell on her they wont do anything
and the person that i tell..will give her a warning..and probably tell her i told and then she will hate me
argh..i hate dishonest people..
been working at woolies for 3 years

 

[cro_angel]

but yeh soha they arent union matters you need to deal with them in the store directly
union is more like working conditions (which can even go to to the oh&s committee) wages holidays and unfair dismissal..

 

[soha]

i know dude
biggles said (before he deleted his post) that i probably have heaps of problems i dont bother going to the union about

i said the only problems i have are
theifs ...and...
bludgers

and the union cant help me..

 

[hessie]

is all about power, your supervisor has it, and to question their integrity is to challenge their power. To do that you need evidence, rather than mere accusations, before you have this you can do nothing that won't worsen your situation. Your supervisor can deny it and as they are in a superior position they are likely to be believed by those who matter... maybe alert a more senior manager and make it clear that you wish to remain confidential under any circumstances.

 

[soha]

i have 2 eye witnesses that have seen her do it
and i can probably write a list of everything shes taken
and they can chek next time they do stocktake..

and im pretty sure they can dig up tapes from our survelliebce cameras

but is it worth telling on someone who steals coke..water..lollies..chips..fruit..and hair care products

i say yes coz shes a total bitch...but i dunno?

 

[loquasagacious]

Idyll and Hessie it may interest you to know (while we're quoting un-referanced statistics) that 50% of all industrial disputes in the last year were instigated by the employer who instituted a lock-out to force employee's to sign AWA's.

Craig Emerson on Insiders before the election - he owned the coalition rep they had.

Hessie it would have been useful if you had done say economics rather than business studies, we covered this issue at great length and unlike business studies we spent a great deal of time on the larger issue not small illustrated exmaples in a dodgy textbook.

I work under an AWA at a mushroom farm - personally I am thankful that it is 'over-regulated' we all get breaks to stretch so that our backs do not seize up and or spasm, when spraying with chemicals we are provided with respirators to prevent us choking, hazardous chemical signs are hung on sheds which are unsafe to enter.

Sometimes I lay awake at night and curse unions for fighting for OH&S.

Also hessie saying that small business's don't hire because of unions is misrepresentation at best likley a lie. How many small business' have an active union? Unions tend to be in large workplaces, factories, supermarkets places with lots of workers, not under twenty like in a small business where a fair number of whom are likley to be related to the boss anyway.

It really is a pity that unions won the rights that workers have to basic minimum standards, makes it that much harder to hire a kid, who just left year 10 and is desperate for money, to do the shit dangerous jobs without proper protection....

Then they even had the hide to include licences, it really is ludicrous that someone without training in driving a forklift isn't allowed to drive one around a busy workplace....

 

[Generator]

Just a slight break from the Union issue... Soha, doesn't Woolworths have an 'operation concern' or something similar hotline to report workplace theft and other like concerns anonymously?

 

[soha]

i wouldnt have a clue
if they do..can u let me know what is it?

 

[iambored]

ive been a member of the sda for 3 years
i dont feel like they have done anything..i havent benefited from anything
they take $6.30 from me a week
i

24 x 12 x 3 = $864 I would opt out if I were you, you could be saving that money

also yes it is definitely worth telling about the supervisor. the store is paying her, she doesn't need to steal from them. it's dishonest and setting a bad example.

surely you can do it annonymously. if i were you i would ring the main office or another store, not your own, and ask about it. ring from a public phone. ask if they have a phone number to report theft. if they ask if you're an employee just don't tell them your name. this way it's all annonymous.

 

[soha]

$834..dam..i'll consider it
thanx 4 ur help..i will tell as soon as i see her do it again..
which will be saturday night

 

[hessie]

Hessie it would have been useful if you had done say economics rather than business studies, we covered this issue at great length and unlike business studies we spent a great deal of time on the larger issue not small illustrated exmaples in a dodgy textbook.

Most of my opinion is generated from personal experience. My family runs a job network agency and as such i have seen first hand the fears of many employers and have also witnessed many cases of excessive union intervention. Most of these are confidential but if you wish i can describe some for you.

I work under an AWA at a mushroom farm - personally I am thankful that it is 'over-regulated' we all get breaks to stretch so that our backs do not seize up and or spasm, when spraying with chemicals we are provided with respirators to prevent us choking, hazardous chemical signs are hung on sheds which are unsafe to enter.

I do not argue this point, i agree there is a need for the union movement to insure the promotion of safe working conditions.

Also hessie saying that small business's don't hire because of unions is misrepresentation at best likley a lie. How many small business' have an active union? Unions tend to be in large workplaces, factories, supermarkets places with lots of workers, not under twenty like in a small business where a fair number of whom are likley to be related to the boss anyway.

The number one barrier for small business in hiring an employee is the fear they will not have the ability to fire them if they are not suitable for the job. The cost of fighting an unfair dismissal case is the major fear facing small business operators currently. In one case I know of, a motel dismissed a casual employee due to compounding circumstances but under union representation this employee claimed unfair dismissal and forced the small business to agree to pay a claim before it was heard because it would have cost much more in legal fees to fight it even though the employee had no entitlement to such money!

Are you telling me in this case the union was acting fairly? Because of such actions against small business operators they are downright scared of terminating any employee, no matter how bad they are at their job.

 

[_Bushra_]

i was part of the SDA but i quit my memebrship when i actually realised how much they were taking from me evry week...and i dont even earn that much!
someone aslo said previously, why should i pay money when i wont be using any of their freaking services?

i think it wasd last year the SDA rallied to get everyone at my work higher pay. EVERYONE in the store got an increase in pay WHETHER OR NOT they were in the lame union...

 

[biggles04]

i was part of the SDA but i quit my memebrship when i actually realised how much they were taking from me evry week...and i dont even earn that much!
someone aslo said previously, why should i pay money when i wont be using any of their freaking services?

i think it wasd last year the SDA rallied to get everyone at my work higher pay. EVERYONE in the store got an increase in pay WHETHER OR NOT they were in the lame union...

You are that stupid to think that only Union members would get a payrise...?

You made yourself look extremely uninformed and idiotic by saying

EVERYONE in the store got an increase in pay WHETHER OR NOT they were in the lame union...

Idiot, of course everyone gets the payrise, it is a part of a new enterprise agreement change.

i think it wasd last year the SDA rallied to get everyone at my work higher pay.

Unions do not rally, they hold meetings and discussions to negotiate.

 

[loquasagacious]

So you are happy for others to bear the brunt of getting YOU a payrise?

Has anyone here heard of a tax deduction? As a handy hint its in your 'tax return' on the page opposite your income. In here you enter your union fees which reduces the tax you pay so being in a union doesnt really cost you anything, and you even get the money in a lump sum which is more useful to spend on aforementioned 'nice things' than in sums of 3 and 6 dollars which could buy maybe a drink and a burger or par of a movie ticket.

Hessie my statement in regards to economics was probably a bit harsh, what I was meaning to say is that your sig indicates that you choose not to study subjects which asked you to think in a broader sense, Business studies is a very insular course.

The plural of anecdote is not fact.

I don't know of a business which as had trouble firing a casual, a full time employee yes, a casual no as they have basically very few rights. It is easy enough just to reduce their shifts to a trickle or cancel them entirely, you still technically employ them but thye don't actually get work hence money off you.

If the motel operator believed that they were in the right they should have fought the court case.

Further you mention that unions should not be able to strike at will, firstly (I'm hypothesising here) what you propose would quite easily stop unions from strking at all and hence remove any power they do have in negotiations. Secondly they can not strike at will, a strike caan be declared an illegal strike and in most cases the union will cease and desist.

Finally in the words of a frind of mine (studied Arts/Law at the ANU and now works on the government legal team in the Dept of Workplace Relations, or some such name): AWA's remove the bargaining power of employees and place employers in a position to dictate terms.

When I started work where i am now I did not negotiate an AWA, I was given one, I was not given the oppurtunity to be employed in any other way, I signed the AWA. Fortunately for me my boss is really good - that is not always the case, or even most commonaly the case.

 

[hessie]

Hessie my statement in regards to economics was probably a bit harsh, what I was meaning to say is that your sig indicates that you choose not to study subjects which asked you to think in a broader sense, Business studies is a very insular course.

Maybe so, i only chose business as opposed to eco because of a timetable conflict with chem.

I don't know of a business which as had trouble firing a casual, a full time employee yes, a casual no as they have basically very few rights. It is easy enough just to reduce their shifts to a trickle or cancel them entirely, you still technically employ them but thye don't actually get work hence money off you.

This is exactly what they did and were subsequently sent a letter notifying their case being held in the industrial relations tribunal on such and such date.

If the motel operator believed that they were in the right they should have fought the court case.

Before it gets to court there needs to be mediation, which would take the managers away from operating the business... probably costing more than the case itself so they just settled it to avoid the inconvenience. But what i am saying is why in this case did the union need to represent the employee when they all knew there was no case - they were counting on the case being settled for those exact reasons!

Further you mention that unions should not be able to strike at will, firstly (I'm hypothesising here) what you propose would quite easily stop unions from

What i want is unions to stick to the cases where their intervention is needed, if they did this i would have no problem with them. Maybe they would achieve more of meaning to, i'm all for the outcomes they quite obviously achieve but by representing unworthy cases they are not really working for all employees as a whole. As i previously said, such union intervention in cases where the employer is in the right cause the small business community to be wary when employing staff.

When I started work where i am now I did not negotiate an AWA, I was given one, I was not given the oppurtunity to be employed in any other way, I signed the AWA. Fortunately for me my boss is really good - that is not always the case, or even most commonaly the case.

All AWA's must be lodged and pass a global 'no disadvantage' test against the appropriate industry award. So even if it were forced the AWA can not give less rights overall than are outlined by the award.

 

[Idyll]

Has anyone here heard of a tax deduction? As a handy hint its in your 'tax return' on the page opposite your income. In here you enter your union fees which reduces the tax you pay so being in a union doesnt really cost you anything, and you even get the money in a lump sum which is more useful to spend on aforementioned 'nice things' than in sums of 3 and 6 dollars which could buy maybe a drink and a burger or par of a movie ticket.

Perhaps you could explain how I do my tax return so that being in a union doesn't really cost anything? I never thought the Howard Government would dig deep to fund the unions out of their pocket.

Sure, you may not have to pay income tax on the money you use to pay your union fees, but how many casuals earn enough to start paying out serious dollars in income tax? How many casuals working in retail could even make the top tax bracket?

 

[loquasagacious]

You don't need to mnake the top bracket to claim - so I will assume you mean the bottom bracket.

Simply if you are eligible for tax, lets say you earnt $8000 in a financial year (not that hard for even a casual retail employee). You are eligble to be taxed on $2000 of that at 17%, so you would pay $340 in tax. If however you had paid say $500 over the financial year in union fees you would claim this as a tax deduction, which would reduce your taxable income by $500 to $1500. So now you would pay $255 in tax a saving of $85.

This reduces the cost to you of being a union member whilst you still get all the benefits.

NB: The figures used have been oulled out of my arse as opposed to anywhere worthwhile or relevant and I may have gotten everything wrong, it was a long day at work and I'm very tired.