Uni's Dumb Down for Foreign Cash (1 Viewer)

[Minai]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Unis-dumb-down-for-foreign-cash/2005/05/06/1115092690372.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...-students-staff/2005/05/06/1115092690381.html

What are your views?
I notice it fairly clearly because I'm in a Commerce faculty.

 

[hiphophorray123]

i've noticed it a bit, that they get off to a slow start to let foregins get the language etc, i think a good side of it is that it lets lazy people relax but as it the semester goes on it gets annoying that everything seems so easy

 

[Benny_]

It's definitely the case at UOW. The final exam for first year economics (macro and micro) is 75% multiple choice and 1 short answer making up the other 25%. Quite ridiculous really. Oh well, doesn't bother me.

 

[ogmzergrush]

It's definitely the case at UOW. The final exam for first year economics (macro and micro) is 75% multiple choice and 1 short answer making up the other 25%. Quite ridiculous really. Oh well, doesn't bother me.

You should see it in Informatics @ UoW, we get assessments that are just glorified library exercises :S Given however, that this is where such a lot of the funding comes from, it's not entirely difficult to see why this is the case.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

In my experience, international students say nothing in class and write huge bibles of notes. It's nothing to do with their effort. But I do agree that replacing critical thinking modes of evaluation, such as essays, with simpler means such as multiple choice is lowering the standards. It is certainly not as effective a learning and assessment tool.

The best way to deal with it is to provide English assistance and support services but keep the standard as it is. That way the opportunity is there for people who struggle with English to seek help, while the legitimacy of the course quality is upheld. Thankfully USyd tended to do this in the Eco + Business faculty when I was there. I remember my lecturer saying - "Look English is important, you need it in this course and you are expected to be able to use it proficiently. That said, if you need assistance please do not hesitate to go to the learning centre and get help."

Lowering the standards for international students because of language barriers is just not on, in my opinion. Given the necessary support, it can be avoided.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It does have those connotations, but if they are causing standards to be lowered then that actually is a bad effect isn't it? I'm not suggesting they should be removed or something equally absurd, but just because it sounds bad doesn't mean we should censor it to be politically correct, when in fact it is bad.

I understand it might produce a few uninformed fist-shakers though

 

[Slidey]

I understand it might produce a few uninformed fist-shakers though.

What doesn't?

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

our faculty provides a test at the start of yr 1 in the orientation week..
its a critcal essay.. then based on that.. u are assessed if u require the extra classes..
both in language and aus culture.. since its the basis for language

As a result they are pretty proficient now and are catchin up with the local cohort in terms of assignment scores.

lolz we hav the lowest grad satisfaction... lucky its mainly cos of the arts and law faculty are crap and so big

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I think the correct version of your signature quote is;

"If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're old, you have no brain."

 

[Sarah]

The best way to deal with it is to provide English assistance and support services but keep the standard as it is. That way the opportunity is there for people who struggle with English to seek help, while the legitimacy of the course quality is upheld. Thankfully USyd tended to do this in the Eco + Business faculty when I was there. I remember my lecturer saying - "Look English is important, you need it in this course and you are expected to be able to use it proficiently. That said, if you need assistance please do not hesitate to go to the learning centre and get help."

At UNSW in the Commerce and Economics faculty there are support servicesfor students to improve their english expression. In fact there's a whole a unit (EDU) dedicated to commerce students which is similar to the Learning centre.

If the support services exist the university needs to publicise this more.

I think the commerce are trying to (well first year accounting at least) by offering students to have their work looked at by the EDU to provide students feedback on their english expression and referencing.

I've found that international students may be quiet in tutorials but where there's group work involved, they're more inclined to speak up and offer an opinion.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

I think the correct version of your signature quote is;

"If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're old, you have no brain."

actualli there are variations attributed to several persons..

umm for tuts.. some internationals are counselled so that they dun feel to intimidated .. and the locals are told to make them feel welcomed.. and realise the differences in cultures..
i think it works.. faculty should be actively involved and not a taboo to hav to hav extra classes.

 

[pete_mate]

i spoke to one of the foreign students in my high school who bragged, "i get 10 extra uai points cos im a foreign student"

this adds another element to the dumbing down of courses, my rebuttal would simply be, "you'll never pass the course anyway" but if they're dumbing down the courses aswell then the whole thing is going down the toilet

is this true about the uai points?

 

[Tabris]

I can tell u Macquarie university has lots and lots of foreign students (Esp. Chinese). Some of the issues pointed out in the SMH are true. Lots of foreign chinese students have english literacy problems, the way they speak and articulate themselves makes u think how they even got in.

A lot of the students dont practice their english (e.g. chinese) when on campus. It is very rare for a chinese student to speak to another chinese student in english. They also seem to stick to their own groups.

Also about the web learning and online teaching, yeah its good and gives alot of free marks but on the other hand alot of it box ticking. For my course, in economics 5% of marks comes from this, and u have 3 attempts.

As for dumbing down standards.... i can tell u that the quality of the lecturers are excellent but the tutors are different matter. 3 of my 4 tutors are postdraduates doing masters etc. with an asian background. One of them pronounce words funny other's english is spoken more like chinese.....

 

[Benny_]

International students are usually very hard working. This isn't a surprise, because they have to work twice as hard as everyone else to get the same grade. The combined difficulties of a new linguistic environment on top of uni work would no doubt be extremely challenging for anyone.

The problem I find tends to be that international students, or at least many Asian international students I'm friends with tend to stick with other international students (I'd be the sole local friend they have). They only speak Chinese amongst themselves, and don't tend to develop their English as well as they would if they had made more of an effort to expose themselves to the new environment. It's understandable, and I'm not criticising, but it does make life more difficult in the long run.

I agree with Moonlight's suggestion for more help to be made available to international students. That however could prove to be expensive, and international students already pay a fortune to study here.

 

[santaslayer]

Are you people complaining?

 

[Frigid]

i was reading thru the PCLL guide for the Faculty of Law, Hong Kong University, something about English Language Emphasis and Enhancement Programme...

• all students and all teachers will be expected to speak English at all times in class, in classroom exercises and outside of class while on campus, whether engaged in private conversations or conversations related to the curriculum
  [*]Students with higher-level English skills will be expected to help thos with lower-level skills by providing them with regular feedback in relation to oral and written [tasks]. It is expected that this kind of feedback will be given inside class, but more is expected to be given outside class.
  [*]All students will be expected to immerse themselves in English when not on campus. This means, wherever possible, students should engage in Englsih media - books, newspapers, televisions, radio [etc]

personally i think this is a very good idea, and should be part of the university ideals when dealing with international students.

 

[Generator]

I cannot help but think that standards aren't as high as they should be given my own results over the years, but I haven't really considered that as following on from a greater reliance on international students as the only international students that I encounter are those from an English speaking country, or those who are fairly proficient in English (more so than I, most of the time). I'm taking a 'soft science' degree, though.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I believe it will produce more of those fist shakers than people who actually won't use it to back of veiws of the asian invasion.

Dont underestimate. It's what won power John Howard in 1998. Fear of foreign invasion in the burbs among the mums and dads is powerful.

Yes I take your point but like I said that doesn't mean we should always shut our eyes to any bad effects whatsoever from foreign students just to be unnecessarily politically correct. A particular group of people causing a bad thing can just be a fact. It's one thing not to stereotype on racist grounds but it's another to make every person in a minority group absolutely immune from confrontation with factual evidence.

 

[Korn]

Yes I take your point but like I said that doesn't mean we should always shut our eyes to any bad effects whatsoever from foreign students just to be unnecessarily politically correct. A particular group of people causing a bad thing can just be a fact. It's one thing not to stereotype on racist grounds but it's another to make every person in a minority group absolutely immune from confrontation with factual evidence.

Agreed ............

 

[leetom]

I believe it will produce more of those fist shakers than people who actually won't use it to back of veiws of the asian invasion.

Dont underestimate. It's what won power John Howard in 1998. Fear of foreign invasion in the burbs among the mums and dads is powerful.

The large numbers of Asian internationals is ultimately the doing of the Howard crew though, so now it's our turn to scare the population with a possible Asian invasion. We're not low enough to do so, though.

Personally, I'm not annoyed by the race of the internationals or their relectance to intergrate or practise their english skills, but by their social background. If they are here paying full fees, no doubt they are from extemely wealthy families back home. I dislike the way they take up the places of probably more deserving local students, who are denied places in favour of the often less able internationals, purely because local students can't pay upfront fees just to keep the university alive.

It's sad that our universities must now look to the pockets of wealthy foreign familes out of financial need rather than looking to recruit locals. Brendon Nelson accuses the universities of being poor managers rather than accept the truth- that this is a terrible result of Liberal Party policy.