VSU Emergency Rally - Tommorow (Wed 16th) (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

So people that support VSU are Immoral?
I'd question the ethics of people that waste money on things that large sections of the student body disagree with, like giving union people cars etc..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I will admit most of the support for VSU is probably "WOW FREE MONEY!", and that's wrong. But there are alot of legit reasons to support VSU..
By the way, i know that the FEE is compulsary, like i do have to pay it.. but do i NEED to be a member of the union now? I'm pretty sure that the right to freedom of association in the UN Charter of Human Rights prevents them from forcing me to be a union member?

But i dunno if people always support free money, i'm pretty sure if you surveyed people they would say they'd be willing to have tax rises if the rail system was fixed up.

 

[withoutaface]

I will admit most of the support for VSU is probably "WOW FREE MONEY!".

But i dunno if people always support free money, i'm pretty sure if you surveyed people they would say they'd be willing to have tax rises if the rail system was fixed up.

Or if they got a train line in their suburb

 

[withoutaface]

You can object to being a member, but they still take your money.

 

[~*HSC 4 life*~]

oi....stay out. no place for UNSW'ers @ Usyd....!.......shookhi mikonam azizam.....

wtf? shomah farsi balady?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Essentially what happens now is we pay our fee's, they go to the university.. which gives them to the unions?
Once VSU is implemented we will still pay, however it will go straight to the universities...

What this basically does is remove the unions (students) power to complain about the services etc, while also taking away the power for unions to basically protest political things..

So basically all that vsu will do is remove some power from the students (union) and give it to the universities? Also it will remove or at least diminish the power for unions to represent students against the universities? I don't like the current unions but what's going to happen under vsu doesn't really sounds that great to me either..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes, but say for instance people that don't pay union fee's, they would go to say a "services" fee paid only to the uni?

So basically all it will do for me, besides diminishing the unions ability to protest wars and such, will be to deny me access to representation and to make the university some sort of dictatorship?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Are you sure? so many people are pissed off about the trains...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well if people are willing to complain but not contribute then its their own problem.
I can't really see much of a redistribution of funds, so many things in nsw aren't going right at the moment.. so unless there are some leaks in the budget i'd say you need a tax rise.

But you're probably right, i doubt Bob Carr has the balls to even say 'tax rise'.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think it's really a matter of time, you could charge more taxes.. if you could get the trains fixed by the next election. People want to see results, if you merely raise taxes and people are still finding it hard to get to work (which of course they will for a few years), the people will be angry... so yea, i guess it does come down to the people being stupid.
But i think if you could somehow speed it up, people might be happy (or not notice because it's slowly phased in).

 

[Minai]

Your very statement demonstrates your values. You only wish to pay for things which directly benefit you.

You do not care about anyone else but yourself.

The above examples of the council context you give HAPPEN to benefit everyone else while at the same time benefit you.

If those things did not benefit you but on the other hand benefitted other people you would not support it.

The union may not benefit you however it may benefit other people. As such you will not pay a single cent towards the benefit of other people because the benfits do not impact on you.



None of these things impact on you. Therefore you will not pay for them no matter how many other people these services may benefit.

Asq - we, as Australians, live in an individualistic society, its in our nature to think of our own interests ahead of society as a whole. With VSU we are making a rational decision, liberating inefficient subsidisation.

 

[withoutaface]

Asq - we, as Australians, live in an individualistic society, its in our nature to think of our own interests ahead of society as a whole. With VSU we are making a rational decision, liberating inefficient subsidisation.

I'd go further to say that humans as a whole are selfish, hence why communism/socialism has never really worked out too well.

 

[Xayma]

"Hello fellow Newsouthwelshman. Everyone in the state will receive a letter, like this one, detailing how they can pay their train tax. This is new tax is desinged to improve rail services. The 500 dollar annual tax will be levied once a year for as long needed. Please pay by xx.xx.xx.

Many Thanks

Bob Carr"


Not likely.

All those people living on Mosman will have a cry about how they dont use the rail system and should not have to pay for the interests of others...

I think it would be more of the country areas complaining, considering they have no access to train services.

Increase in GST is unlikely, however, they could fight for a greater % of what they pay.

 

[Generator]

I'd go further to say that humans as a whole are selfish, hence why communism/socialism has never really worked out too well.

I'd say that it is an increasingly individualistic society... The ideas of egalitarianism and 'a fair go' are still evident, it's just that they are being redefined to suit the current economic/political climate. Despite our individuality, we are still social creatures and the need for collective support for those in need will remain, and be supported by many (it's just that the idea of mutual obligation will become more prevalent).

Given that VSU is likely to pass (even though Felix Eldridge has a point in calling for the students themselves vote on the issue given that it does not concern 'mainstream' Australia), I guess that we will just have to see what happens. In the past I have not really cared about the Sports Union and have supported it on a basis of with one comes all, but with VSU at least I'll be able to just support the SRC and possibly the Union... The SRC provides a legal, academic and financial safety net for those students in need, alongside student representation for all, and I would hate to see those services vanish. That's my position, anyway.

 

[Phanatical]

Felix Eldridge is a wanker. I hope to see the downfall of the NUS while he's President, just so that he'll always have that over his head.

 

[Xayma]

I'm talking about considering and knowing that your gain (of 600) negatively will impact on other people and impinge on their excising of their rights.

I dont have any problem with VSU. I have a problem with supporters of VSU who celebrate the fact that their increase in liberty comes at the expence of anothers chance to exercise their rights. It's highly hypocritcal and sad for someone to celebrate how their liberty is coming at the expense of the rights and freedoms of another person.

You mean their rights for things like political protests? I wonder if I organised a pro VSU one whether they would give me funding to do it, like they do for anti VSU ones. I don't think they would. So we should increase fees so that I get to exercise my rights.

 

[Mambomeg]

i'm more than happy to pay the union portion of the fees, and in theory i'm happy to pay for the SRC portion too (although i really dont see why the war in iraq has anything to do with the students of the university, its a national issue not a university/student one)

but i really object to paying $250 a year for sports, when you still have to pay to use the gym/ swimming pool anyway, and its cheaper for me to go to my local public pool, and pretty much the same price for the gym.

I think the argument that there will be no more sports with VSU is crap. How do you think local footy/soccer/netball clubs pay for themsleves? the people who play pay, and its not a big deal. Why should i foot the bill for the rugby team to have a nice green field to play on? The majority of students arent even allowed to walk on these ovals, let alone play on them.

The union itself is much wider reaching, and benefits many more students than does the sports union. things like cheaper food, student bursaries, free entertainment are of much more value to students who unlike others on this forum, have to fund their own lives and dont have money to splash around. And i am much happier paying $250 a year than $500, because thats another textbook for me!

 

[Steven12]

yes..... having a heated politcal debate in this forum makes me feel like a family member of the Kennedys......

 

[withoutaface]

i'm more than happy to pay the union portion of the fees, and in theory i'm happy to pay for the SRC portion too (although i really dont see why the war in iraq has anything to do with the students of the university, its a national issue not a university/student one)

but i really object to paying $250 a year for sports, when you still have to pay to use the gym/ swimming pool anyway, and its cheaper for me to go to my local public pool, and pretty much the same price for the gym.

I think the argument that there will be no more sports with VSU is crap. How do you think local footy/soccer/netball clubs pay for themsleves? the people who play pay, and its not a big deal. Why should i foot the bill for the rugby team to have a nice green field to play on? The majority of students arent even allowed to walk on these ovals, let alone play on them.

The union itself is much wider reaching, and benefits many more students than does the sports union. things like cheaper food, student bursaries, free entertainment are of much more value to students who unlike others on this forum, have to fund their own lives and dont have money to splash around. And i am much happier paying $250 a year than $500, because thats another textbook for me!

I think you'll find it's more like $150 for the sports union, and it's definately not more than $200.

 

[Minai]

I don't have any problem with VSU. I have a problem with supporters of VSU who celebrate the fact that their increase in liberty comes at the expence of anothers chance to exercise their rights. Celebrating the fact that someone else has less of a chance of to exercise their rights. It's highly hypocritcal and sad for someone to celebrate how their liberty is coming at the expense of the rights and freedoms of another person when they themselves argue for 'liberation'

In these circumstances, define rights and freedoms? If you mean other people's access to the campus clinic - with VSU, they'll have an extra $500 odd to spend on their own doctor (as an example). And either way, as Bambul has shown in another thread, around 70% of the UNSW Union's (again, as an example) revenue comes from sources OTHER than student contributions. If absolutely zero people paid their fees next year, the Union would still have 70% of its previous funding, so I doubt there'd be a dramatic impact on 'other' people's freedoms and rights.