VSU Rally vs. Tuts and Lectures? (1 Viewer)

[Rorix]

I've noticed that asking guys/gals trying to sell USU to me how much the USU collected in voluntary contributions this year tends to shut them up quickly.

 

[withoutaface]

The SRC needs to start pushing more student issues and less leftist political ones.

 

[gordo]

the entire point of government is to represent the people. If it's not doing that, rebel.

in the context in referrence, that only re-itterates my point about selfishness


usually i don't voice my anti usu opinion because it is wholely futile wen entering the ears of a anti vsu, but that rally today was the last straw.

its sad how anti usu can see both sides of the story but anti vsu can only see theirs.


please take as much time as u need to rip into me, maybe u can even giv yourself an hourly wage out of our super efficiently spent usu funds.

 

[Rorix]

The SRC needs to become more relevant and be politically unbiased, and representative of the desires of the students regarding university issues, not political issues.

 

[gordo]

but since only the active minority cares,
the active minority will only ever be the ones represented

 

[Phanatical]

www.thequahreport.com

 

[Plebeian]

The VSU/USU debate has been done to death in other threads already; but if you are so informed about both sides of the issue, gordo, can you please tell me why the following points (from another thread) in support of USU are incorrect?

1) In response to: "If the Union & SRC go bankrupt under VSU, it's clearly not providing enough value to students" and "The SRC are wasting my money on running left-wing campaigns".

This is not the case. Contribution levels will fall not because people don't enjoy the services that they get, but because they will try to get them without paying for them. In the absence of a system of complete discrimination between members and non-members, people who didn't pay will think that they can go into Manning and watch the same free lunchtime bands as people who did pay - so why would anyone fork out at the start of the year?

Additionally, many of the services are things which aren't directly sustainable, because while they are essential, they are not glamorous and people don't recognise the value of them. For example, the SRC runs things such as welfare support, subsidised childcare, assistance with academic appeals, and - God forbid - political campaigns. Now, yes, some of the campaigns run by people are too extreme. But the SRC is an open body, where anyone who wants to can run a campaign on a particular issue.

In any case, these campaigns have achieved substantial gains for student rights in the past. You might decide you want to save some cash by not joining up to clubs, but if you support the Government's model of VSU in order to do this, you're also throwing away your only voice for student rights ... the people who fought (and successfully reduced) HECS increases, and who are conducting a campaign against ancillary course fees (which has been somewhat sidelined by VSU). When Xayma says the SRC doesn't conduct campaigns on student issues, he's conveniently overlooking these things, plus the glaringly obvious example of the VSU campaign.

2) In response to "The SRC is not representative of student interests, because not everyone votes."

Here is a quote from ABC News (America) that might interest you:
Quote:

"WASHINGTON Jan 15, 2005 — Deep divisions over the war in Iraq and intense voter registration drives pushed the 2004 presidential election turnout to 60.7 percent, the highest level since 1968, the Center for the Study of the American Electorate said Friday."

I don't remember anyone calling the US un-democratic because not everyone votes. In any case, you can scarcely blame the SRC for the fact that not everyone votes. That's not their fault. Perhaps if more people were interested in issues that affect them and everyone else on campus, the SRC would be an even more vibrant political body. But don't persecute it for the apathy of the general student body on these matters.

3) In response to: "VSU gives me the choice to join and pay for just the clubs that I want to."

Yeah, well that's all well and good if those clubs manage to stay afloat. The fact is, most won't, and the ones that do will only manage to do so by charging a lot more for membership. As in, upwards of $30-40 (based on the amount of Union funding they'll lose under VSU), which of course no-one will pay because no-one can see themselves getting value for that much money upfront. So all the clubs will die, and people won't have the choice to join anything.

4) In response to: "Private enterprise would be cheaper for us all."

Well, there are a few private enterprises on campus already. BB's, Donut King, and Azzuri's are all privately-owned (you'll note they don't take the orange member card). It's not a coincidence that they're all more expensive. Generally, they're actually more expensive than the non-member price at Union outlets, so this whole argument that the Union doesn't know what it's doing and is full of inefficiency, whereas private enterprise has an obvious commitment to low prices, is flawed. Why would a business not answerable to the student body want to cut prices for no reason? Some people say 'competition', but there already is competition, both with each other and with the Union outlets. Also, consider that during uni holidays for 3 months of the year, these private enterprises would get no business. Most companies wouldn't be willing to take that sort of hit when they could just locate themselves nearby to the campus and get business all year round from both the student body and general population.

---

Everyone just needs to think about whether saving this amount of money at the start of the year is worth:
- turning the uni from a vibrant, enjoyable place to be into a bland place with no extracurricular clubs, entertainment, or sport (SU Sport will die too, don't forget that).
- losing access to essential services that YOU MIGHT NEED one day, eg. welfare, academic appeals, legal and health services.
- depriving the student community of its ability to organise, be informed and have a voice on important issues which affect them (eg. Youth Allowance, which the student movement fought to retain as a payment rather than a loan, which the Government wanted to turn it into; also HECS increases, ancillary course costs and VSU). This will affect your rights in the future, and could make you liable to be paying more in terms of ancillary fees, HECS and other course costs if the Government is able to raise them without opposition.
- raising prices in all the shops in campus, or losing them altogether.

Yes, there are some flaws with the current system, but the Government's model of complete VSU is NOT THE SOLUTION. It's too harsh in its attacks on both campus life and the rights of students. It's simply not worth it.

Additionally, I find it a bit difficult to believe the way you say:

1) The SRC should become more focussed on student issues, and then dismiss the anti-VSU campaign as some sort of ideological crusade against the Liberals, when it is in fact the single most important student issue facing students at the present (and generally for the foreseeable future). It might also interest you to know that the SRC spends only 3% of its budget on non-student campaigns like refugees, etc. (which are still of importance to many students, but I agree far less relevant).

2) The SRC should become more representative of the general student population, "but this will never happen because only the active minority is interested". Well, whose fault is that? Just because the majority of people are lazy and apathetic, and thus don't have their views represented to the same extent as the more politically active members of society, doesn't mean we should abolish representation altogether! That's a totally unjustifiable leap of logic. It's like saying Americans should abolish their government because not everyone votes.

But I think I like this one best of all:

"the govt is ther to run the country, if u don't like it, leave the country."

You know what that's called, gordo? A DICTATORSHIP.

PS. Rorix, not everyone is an idiot. The Union collected $9,003,542 from compulsory contributions in 2003 (if that's what you mean ... when you say about asking people how much the Union collected from voluntary subscriptions, the answer would be 0). In total, the 47,296 students (as at 2004) would have paid $24.5 million to the Union, SRC and SU Sport.

 

[Mambomeg]

i find it amusing that no one even bothered to visit the vet faculty to tell us about the anti VSU rally. No posters were put up, no one visited our lectures, no people were present handing out pamphlets or fliers.

i wonder why this is? is it because in my faculty, hardly anyone uses union facilties? We have our own commercial cafe, which is reasonably priced, and produces much higher quality food than a lot of the union outlets. Very few people, in my year at least, ever venture out into the main part of the campus (ie- eastern avenue, wenworth, manning) because its closer for us to go to the forest lodge hotel, officeworks, and the shops down ross st. Most people dont walk from redfern, they get buses straight to ross st, so they dont see all the posters etc.

how is it that an entire faculty is just left out of all the union advertising? we pay our fees just like everyone else, but it appears our opinion doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things.

i wonder if anyone bothered visiting the nursing faculty, or the cumberland campus, or the engineering and architecture buildings. Does the union even know these faculties exist? do they care about the students in them?

I dont see why i should fund clubs that dont bother even considering the minority faculties. A lot of the funding that goes to clubs is wasted on kegs, photocopying of fliers that mostly get thrown in the bin anyway, and t-shirts, which, realistically, are not necessary. I know for the wildlife society, it gets $5 per member that joins. Hardly a major amount of money. Why should i fund someone elses alcohol consumption. It doesnt cost anything to say "come to the pub tomorrow night" and people can buy their own drinks.

and why should i fund campaigns for people running for union? they all get money from the union, which is again wasted on fliers, tshirts and posters which only remain visible for like 10 mins before some other person comes and covers them up with another poster.

maybe VSU is a good thing, money will stop being wasted on frivilous things because clubs will have to use their money wisely instead of wasting it on crap. The union will also have to tighten its purse strings and (omg!) maybe cut salaries.... If the president etc are really so passionate about the union, then surely it wouldnt be an issue for them to continue their work for free?

in my view, this massive amount of money could be spent on things so much more useful, such as scholarships, bursaries, textbook discounts, financial help for people doing work experience or internships as part of their degrees.

oh, and i also agree with what people have been saying about the SRC. it is a necessary thing, and should represent the student body, but should not stick its nose into non related political issues such as the war in iraq.

 

[greeninsanity]

how is it that an entire faculty is just left out of all the union advertising? we pay our fees just like everyone else, but it appears our opinion doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things.

i wonder if anyone bothered visiting the nursing faculty, or the cumberland campus, or the engineering and architecture buildings. Does the union even know these faculties exist? do they care about the students in them?

In the past two weeks SRC representatives visited Nursing, Cumberland and the Conservatorium - they talked to students about VSU, a welfare caseworker employed by the SRC gave students information about services and, in the case of nursing, the SRC is taking students' complaints about course content, tutorial sizes etc. to the University administration.

Engineering and architecture? Both faculties have a representative in the upcoming Union Board elections. (In fact, the engineering student's "policy statement" is about getting a new bar).

I know most of your post was mere speculation, but I don't think you can blame the Union's lack of advertising for the fact that you're uninformed. Ever read the Honi Soit or the Union Bull? Ever think of visiting the Union website? You're saying that the Union wastes money and then demanding they put up more posters, so that you never have to venture out of your building...

 

[withoutaface]

i find it amusing that no one even bothered to visit the vet faculty to tell us about the anti VSU rally. No posters were put up, no one visited our lectures, no people were present handing out pamphlets or fliers.

i wonder why this is? is it because in my faculty, hardly anyone uses union facilties? We have our own commercial cafe, which is reasonably priced, and produces much higher quality food than a lot of the union outlets. Very few people, in my year at least, ever venture out into the main part of the campus (ie- eastern avenue, wenworth, manning) because its closer for us to go to the forest lodge hotel, officeworks, and the shops down ross st. Most people dont walk from redfern, they get buses straight to ross st, so they dont see all the posters etc.

how is it that an entire faculty is just left out of all the union advertising? we pay our fees just like everyone else, but it appears our opinion doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things.

i wonder if anyone bothered visiting the nursing faculty, or the cumberland campus, or the engineering and architecture buildings. Does the union even know these faculties exist? do they care about the students in them?

I dont see why i should fund clubs that dont bother even considering the minority faculties. A lot of the funding that goes to clubs is wasted on kegs, photocopying of fliers that mostly get thrown in the bin anyway, and t-shirts, which, realistically, are not necessary. I know for the wildlife society, it gets $5 per member that joins. Hardly a major amount of money. Why should i fund someone elses alcohol consumption. It doesnt cost anything to say "come to the pub tomorrow night" and people can buy their own drinks.

and why should i fund campaigns for people running for union? they all get money from the union, which is again wasted on fliers, tshirts and posters which only remain visible for like 10 mins before some other person comes and covers them up with another poster.

maybe VSU is a good thing, money will stop being wasted on frivilous things because clubs will have to use their money wisely instead of wasting it on crap. The union will also have to tighten its purse strings and (omg!) maybe cut salaries.... If the president etc are really so passionate about the union, then surely it wouldnt be an issue for them to continue their work for free?

in my view, this massive amount of money could be spent on things so much more useful, such as scholarships, bursaries, textbook discounts, financial help for people doing work experience or internships as part of their degrees.

oh, and i also agree with what people have been saying about the SRC. it is a necessary thing, and should represent the student body, but should not stick its nose into non related political issues such as the war in iraq.

Don't think I saw much propaganda down at engineering, though there are a lot of "Vote Jackson Fan" posters

 

[withoutaface]

In the past two weeks SRC representatives visited Nursing, Cumberland and the Conservatorium - they talked to students about VSU, a welfare caseworker employed by the SRC gave students information about services and, in the case of nursing, the SRC is taking students' complaints about course content, tutorial sizes etc. to the University administration.

Engineering and architecture? Both faculties have a representative in the upcoming Union Board elections. (In fact, the engineering student's "policy statement" is about getting a new bar).

I know most of your post was mere speculation, but I don't think you can blame the Union's lack of advertising for the fact that you're uninformed. Ever read the Honi Soit or the Union Bull? Ever think of visiting the Union website? You're saying that the Union wastes money and then demanding they put up more posters, so that you never have to venture out of your building...

Better than the one promising more leftist agendas I have a serious problem with that guy because the union's supposed to be politically independent, but he's campaigning "For a LEFT union":S

 

[Xayma]

You're saying that the Union wastes money and then demanding they put up more posters, so that you never have to venture out of your building...

Actually they could do it with alot less but more evenly spaced, instead of their high density low area, high wastage approach.

I get annoyed at the waste of paper by the union etc I wonder how the environmental collective manages to keep quiet.

 

[Phanatical]

They put up hundreds of posters in small spaces "so they can be seen better". Also, posters are quickly ripped down or posted over by opposition candidates. All these tactics are fair play in elections.

BTW, in the SRC election I contested, I used the least amount of paper, and what paper I did use was recycled. I also printed my flyers in A6, where everybody else used A5, in order to minimise the amount of paper I used. So vote for me for SRC!

 

[xiao1985]

lolz sorry andrew, if i vote at all i'd vote for u =)

 

[Mambomeg]

Ever read the Honi Soit or the Union Bull? Ever think of visiting the Union website? You're saying that the Union wastes money and then demanding they put up more posters, so that you never have to venture out of your building...

until a few weeks ago, we didnt have honi soit or the printed versions of the bull available at the vet faculty. occasionally you would find some dumped on a chair at the front door, but that was it.

So the union went all the way to mallet st, but didnt stop to drop in at the vet faculty on the way? i just find it aggrevating that its only the people who do courses within the major faculties that get told about things. The union went all the way to the con, but couldnt walk the few hundred metres to the vet faculty, or the engo faculty.

I really dont care all that much, but for all the talk of the union and SRC representing and providing for the "entire student body" i think they should make a bit more effort to back that up, by actually making the effort to include the entire student body in their campaigns. it really doesnt make me want to support the union when they obviously dont want to support my faculty.

 

[Phanatical]

The Union and the SRC just stick some editions in envelopes and post them to the Con. At the Con there's a whole stack of unopened envelopes full of Honi Soit which nobody has bothered to open.

Again, this is why students must NEVER SUPPORT "ACTION". Last year, Conservatorium Diversity campaigned with a $50 budget on the basis of representing all students (and Not just militant lesbian feminists). So if you have an issue with the SRC/Union/whatever, run a Vet Diversity ticket this year.

 

[Plebeian]

The Union and the SRC just stick some editions in envelopes and post them to the Con. At the Con there's a whole stack of unopened envelopes full of Honi Soit which nobody has bothered to open.

Um, I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting the SRC shoud do with Honi instead. Do you want them to come to the Con and shove them in your face? Clearly, they're supplying it to you ... it's not like there's a shortage of copies at the Con or anything, which would be a problem.

 

[withoutaface]

His suggestion was that the honi soit is an annoying publication which noone reads.

 

[Phanatical]

They're still in the courier envelopes in the mail room at the Con. The CSA hasn't even bothered to look inside them, and we (SECS) can't open them because they're not addressed to us.

I read Honi, but I'm also an SRC Presidental Aspirant. I don't know many others who do.

 

[jellybeenz]

I didnt go to class... marched, sat around on the grass in the sun, smoked, played frisbee, listened to some tunes, heard some jokes and some discussion, talked to abc radio and was on the radio, laid around on the grass a bit more--- before heading to manning for a beer with some friends....

Fucking fantastic day.