What happens when you don't achieve the UAI you need? (1 Viewer)

[NEVAGIVEUP]

Hey guys, just two general questions;

1. So what happens if (hopefully not) we don't achieve the UAI we need to enter our preferred course?

2. Why is there negativity about teaching?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[AsyLum]

1. You find another way to get into the course you want. Direct entry via UAI is the easiest and most visible, but not the only path.

2. Because it is a thankless job right now, low pay, low prioritiy in social status, lots of stress/work.

 

[NEVAGIVEUP]

1. You find another way to get into the course you want. Direct entry via UAI is the easiest and most visible, but not the only path.

2. Because it is a thankless job right now, low pay, low prioritiy in social status, lots of stress/work.

May be thankless, yet rewarding in its' own way, pay is tipped to increase, teachers are well respected because they provide students knowledge that not everybody unqualified to do can and yes lots of stress/work

 

[Cookie182]

strongly disagee with your last point. Any professional job is stressful/lots of work, but despite having marking/preperation the short work hours and holidays far outweiht other professions-ie banking, law, medicine, accounting, engineering

 

[-Anfernee-]

strongly disagee with your last point. Any professional job is stressful/lots of work, but despite having marking/preperation the short work hours and holidays far outweiht other professions-ie banking, law, medicine, accounting, engineering

Nah mate, Teaching is tough, you have to put up with smart -alec kids all day and you really feel under-appreciated. Also, the salary is pretty meagre compared to those professions you just listed.


The holidays are there for teachers to recover from a year of abuse and torment at the hands of students. To get a pay-rise you practically have to beg the government.

 

[Numbers]

Nah mate, Teaching is tough, you have to put up with smart -alec kids all day and you really feel under-appreciated. Also, the salary is pretty meagre compared to those professins you just listed.


The holidays are there for teachers to recover from a year of abuse and torment at the hands of students. To get a pay-rise you practically have to beg the government.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA @ your second paragraph. Seriously cracked me up, and I agree, teaching is probably the most pitiful job out there.

 

[NEVAGIVEUP]

But come on guys, isn't because of teachers that you are here today?

 

[Strawbaby]

The holidays are there for teachers to recover from a year of abuse and torment at the hands of students. To get a pay-rise you practically have to beg the government.

Don't forget abuse and torment at the hands of parents

 

[Numbers]

But come on guys, isn't because of teachers that you are here today?

Don't get me wrong, I respect and give all that I've got today to the teachers I've had over the years, but nonetheless, teaching is a real tough job and you will cop a lot of flack. The pay is pretty pitiful, the conditions are worse, but then I guess if you get self satisfaction from knowing that you've taught something beneficial to someone, teaching is probably a good job.

 

[NEVAGIVEUP]

Don't get me wrong, I respect and give all that I've got today to the teachers I've had over the years, but nonetheless, teaching is a real tough job and you will cop a lot of flack. The pay is pretty pitiful, the conditions are worse, but then I guess if you get self satisfaction from knowing that you've taught something beneficial to someone, teaching is probably a good job.

Every job has its pros and cons right? I mean being a lawyer you may get great pay but thats a hack of a job as well; demanding, stressful, etc. But i jus find it saddening that teachers cop the crap; in our school they are well respected and pretty much our mates. They provide a lot more than any toher occupation for a lot less

 

[Numbers]

Every job has its pros and cons right? I mean being a lawyer you may get great pay but thats a hack of a job as well; demanding, stressful, etc. But i jus find it saddening that teachers cop the crap; in our school they are well respected and pretty much our mates. They provide a lot more than any toher occupation for a lot less

Yep, you're right, every job does have its own up and down sides. However, some more than others.

I also think it's sad that teachers, who pretty much qualify as second parents to some kids, cop flak from not only students but also parents of students, and also the government. The government really needs to step up its game or there won't be any more teachers.

I don't know. If you have a passion for teaching and are willing to to put in alot of time and effort, then go for it.

 

[NEVAGIVEUP]

Yep, you're right, every job does have its own up and down sides. However, some more than others.

I also think it's sad that teachers, who pretty much qualify as second parents to some kids, cop flak from not only students but also parents of students, and also the government. The government really needs to step up its game or there won't be any more teachers.

I don't know. If you have a passion for teaching and are willing to to put in alot of time and effort, then go for it.

It is my passion only because i love dedicating my time to help out others and adore it when people ask me for help and i can help them out. And i thought this would be the way to go; still think it is but to be honest i don't know either...

 

[Davo1111]

NEVAGIVUP - You seem to be trying to defend teaching because you have a passion/interest to be a teacher. Lets just look at the facts.

Yes it is a hard job (probably mentally hard induring the kids), with relativly low pay/sometimes poor conditions- when compared to other things. However, the people that teach want to help kids develop their skills, or pass on knowledge they have. Thats what its all about. if you want to do teaching, then do it - and don't let anyone give you shit about it. At the end of the day, you have to be happy with your job, and your life.

 

[Cookie182]

Don't get me wrong, I respect and give all that I've got today to the teachers I've had over the years, but nonetheless, teaching is a real tough job and you will cop a lot of flack. The pay is pretty pitiful, the conditions are worse, but then I guess if you get self satisfaction from knowing that you've taught something beneficial to someone, teaching is probably a good job.

You paint a picture like their CO's in a max security prison or something. I guarrantee you Taxi Driver's, Police Officers and Baggage Handlers get a tougher time from the public then teachers. I'm not saying it is easy, sure you get some abusive kids, but at the end of the day your in the class room (high school) at max an hour with that lot before they move on. Plus, they are only kids- their often immature and a good teacher knows a little bit of psychology and how to handle this. Many of my best teachers never went crazy/yelled, but calmly embarrassed the disruptive kids, isolating them from the social circle they were attempting to impress. These teachers were also highly funny, interactive, passionate and treated the kids like freinds- and hence the respect flowed towards them. The teachers that often cop shit are in many cases incompetent, lack passion or have no personal skills or interest in the subject and hence should not have choosen the career path in the first place.

Anyway, lets take a generalised look at the standard day-
The normal teacher prob arrives at 8-8:30 has coffee in staff room before going to their roll call class etc. Generally teachers also get a free period on many days (an hour) plus they get the lunch/recess or afternoon break off as well (even though they do get play ground duty rostered). Then factor in events like assemblies, often 40 minutes to an hour once a week they can sit down for and of course sport- up to 2 hrs of their afternoon where they jsut monitor the kids and have a chat. For eg, i use to go to the gym for sport and ten pin bowling- at both venues the teachers would bring a magazine/paper and just sit down and have a coffee. Not a bad way to get paid. In fact, on that same day we always had a 40 minute assembly in the morning and a half hour break before sport. Thursdays at my school meant a max of of 2-3 hrs in the classroom and a full day's pay!!!!!! Lets also consider that on the normal day, we are only talking about 6.5 hours people- my high school was 8:30-2:45 (that's 6.25 hrs but allow 15 in either arvo/morning for arriving etc)

Now i have a lot of respect for good teachers and Im not saying it is not stressful, but not many other professions gets 10 week+ paid holidays a year as well. They never can get 'called in' for weekends etc There is a lot of perks. If you make head teacher etc it does nearly cap out at 80 grand a year. Not bad! Assuming you meet someone in the profession as a future partner, u could b on 150+ a year combined. I know many wealthy teachers and they love their job and also after the first few years of settling do not find it stressful at all. They also have a very nice superannuation package, which i think came in during the 80's, but sadly might be phased out for new teachers now. The 'marking' is pitiful compared to a lawyer's work he has to bring home or an accountant's work around tax time. These professions, particularly a busy solicitor work very long hours for the money they earn as do many other professionals, often including weekends. They would also be lucky to get any more then four weeks annual leave.

Plus, if your good at your area of study teaching it at the high school level can be very briezy if not boring. Look at how bludgey casual teachers get it, often just babysitting classes without having to do any teaching. Geez look at PE teachers! Of course every1 wants 2 be one- paid the same as the 4 U maths teacher and they get to stand in the sun and blow a whistle or a draw a diagram of a dick on the board and explain sex to laughing yr 8 kids.

If you want to talk about really hard teaching, then discuss being a University Lecturer cause that IS NOT easy (emphasise lecturer/academic/subject coordinator NOT tutor, cause many of them do seem to have it easy).

 

[Sammy-Blue]

If you want to talk about really hard teaching, then discuss being a University Lecturer cause that IS NOT easy (emphasise lecturer/academic/subject coordinator NOT tutor, cause many of them do seem to have it easy).

Maybe I'm missing something, but being a lecturer would be alot easier than being a teacher. Teachers actually have to teach students, lecturers just spit out information for however many hours a day. Very different methods of "teaching" with the lecturer being able to rely much more on students to do their own work, and doesn't really have to worry or care about how many fail. If anything, the tutor would have it harder because they cover the content in a more detailed manner, and are the ones who have to walk students through stuff they don't understand, much closer to teachers. This has been my experience at least, obviously you will sometimes get very good lectures and deadshit tutors. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

[Cookie182]

Nah mate, Teaching is tough, you have to put up with smart -alec kids all day and you really feel under-appreciated. Also, the salary is pretty meagre compared to those professions you just listed.


The holidays are there for teachers to recover from a year of abuse and torment at the hands of students. To get a pay-rise you practically have to beg the government.

You don't think other professions often feel unappreciated. What about the surgical intern who just came off a 56 hour shift, running labs, catching a few ours sleep here and there, copping shit from not only patients who are anything but appreciative but also older doctors. At least teaching has a generally suportive staff envrionment. Law, Medicine or Banking- competitive as hell. Plus, in these professions u also start on often very low salaries 38-45 k, teachers start on higher and believe me they would do less work in their first few 'settling' years then the professions i listed.

 

[Cookie182]

Maybe I'm missing something, but being a lecturer would be alot easier than being a teacher. Teachers actually have to teach students, lecturers just spit out information for however many hours a day. Very different methods of "teaching" with the lecturer being able to rely much more on students to do their own work, and doesn't really have to worry or care about how many fail. If anything, the tutor would have it harder because they cover the content in a more detailed manner, and are the ones who have to walk students through stuff they don't understand, much closer to teachers. This has been my experience at least, obviously you will sometimes get very good lectures and deadshit tutors. Maybe I've just been lucky.

I can vaguely see what your saying, but to stand there and deliver a lecture in front of 300-500 people who can interupt you with questions any time would be a lot harder IMO. Also, the content of uni work is far far more difficult then high school concepts and the study to become a lecturer over a teacher reflects why they are paid much more. Now don't get me wrong, of course kids can interupt you, but they are- kids...not adults who are paying anything in the excess of 4 grand a semester and often concurrently working as professionals. Its a different ball game. Your under constant criticism, not from a few whinging parents but from official review boards, administrative channels etc. If your being lazy or fucking up, ppl will complain. You go whinge to the head teacher at high school that your classroom teacher isn't very good and see how far that gets you. Teaching is a very safe job unless you do something stupid like feeling up a kid or drinking on the job. As a lecturer you are expected to prepare very well for each lecture and be available for consultation. A lecturer might cover a months worth of high school material in a week. They are also audio recorded generally, which adds pressure and constantly reviewed, even by the students. They are constantly emailed, often 50 per day, from students regarding q's or applications for administrative procedures ie supplementary exams, special consideration. Whilst your doing this, your also working towards a phD generally or continuing with post-doctoral research and publications- which are expected if you are to keep your position.

On that note, i think at least being a first year tutor is easier then a high school teacher though. People don't generally ask a lot of q like in high school as most ppl can't wait to leave. Tutors i have had so far have not helped me in the slightest. They don't care if your not following the material or keeping up. Sure, they will help u if u ask a q but definately not to the level of a teacher. I usually consult lecturers directly at uni, as they are the ones who can tell what is on the final, and that is all i give a shit about. Secondly, the subject coordinator generally supplies the tutor with the answers to each weeks questions anyways. I imagine tutoring at the 200 or 300 level though with smaller class sizes would be a lot more personal and difficult.

 

[billbro]

Maybe I'm missing something, but being a lecturer would be alot easier than being a teacher. Teachers actually have to teach students, lecturers just spit out information for however many hours a day. Very different methods of "teaching" with the lecturer being able to rely much more on students to do their own work, and doesn't really have to worry or care about how many fail. If anything, the tutor would have it harder because they cover the content in a more detailed manner, and are the ones who have to walk students through stuff they don't understand, much closer to teachers. This has been my experience at least, obviously you will sometimes get very good lectures and deadshit tutors. Maybe I've just been lucky.

It is hard to say in my opinion, I think a lecturer that does a thorough job has it a lot tougher than a teacher. There is generally a lot of content to cover, most lecturers have to do a range of roles from lecturing, consultation, tutoring to research. I don't think teaching at high school would be harder, maybe my schooling was rather poor but basically you were spoon-fed information and that doesn't require much effort. Also, whenever I asked questions at school the teachers were generally unable to provide a coherent answer.

Keep in mind that lecturers are regularly reviewed in terms of lecture performance and tutorial performance. However, at the end of it the most stressful part of their job is the research - once you get a grant you have to finish the research by a set amount of time. Research particularly the data collection phase is painstakingly boring, but ultimately it needs to be done as what you produce in the world of academia keeps you employed.

 

[Cookie182]

It is hard to say in my opinion, I think a lecturer that does a thorough job has it a lot tougher than a teacher. There is generally a lot of content to cover, most lecturers have to do a range of roles from lecturing, consultation, tutoring to research. I don't think teaching at high school would be harder, maybe my schooling was rather poor but basically you were spoon-fed information and that doesn't require much effort. Also, whenever I asked questions at school the teachers were generally unable to provide a coherent answer.

Keep in mind that lecturers are regularly reviewed in terms of lecture performance and tutorial performance. However, at the end of it the most stressful part of their job is the research - once you get a grant you have to finish the research by a set amount of time. Research particularly the data collection phase is painstakingly boring, but ultimately it needs to be done as what you produce in the world of academia keeps you employed.

Well said. The more i think about it, it is laughable to make the claim that teachers have it harder then lecturers. Teachers i know told me lecturers have it way harder and that they would hate the job. One of my teachers was a lecturer and he now works in high school full time, so that must say something- it is easier

*This discussion needs moving to it's own thread.

 

[billbro]

Well said. The more i think about it, it is laughable to make the claim that teachers have it harder then lecturers. Teachers i know told me lecturers have it way harder and that they would hate the job. One of my teachers was a lecturer and he now works in high school full time, so that must say something- it is easier

It's a bit arbitrary to say one or other definitely has it better. The amount of shit lecturers I've had seems to suggest a lot of them have it easy. If they don't give a crap about what they teach and are solely focused on their research, it probably isn't that bad.

One other thing to consider is that lecturers can get research assistants to do the boring ground work. Really depends on the lecturer, the lecturer I work for does a lot of the preliminary work before passing on tasks to us.

However, based on what the role different careers "should" entail, teaching does look easier. What I do agree with is that teachers are unappreciated, but that's not to say those that teach well aren't respected. Teaching definitely doesn't hold the regard it did in years and years past, whether that is due to a societal shift or just an indication of their performance I can't say. Either way, I wouldn't think of teaching as "that bad", I personally viewed it as an easy back up profession >_> I mean you just go overseas for a few years as an English teacher, earn enough from an Asian private school and come back to read the newspaper everyday and get long holidays.

----

As to the negativity surround teaching, I don't really know much about it. I haven't really looked extensively in the area, but I suppose as everyone has mentioned it is the under appreciation. However, I would think most professions aren't held in high esteem anyway - I suppose it would be due to the fact that Teaching has dropped from its lofty perch as a highly respected profession.

Personally, I know some really bright acquaintances who are going into teaching - so not sure how much the 'negativity' really affects people.