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Where are you going? (1 Viewer)

capa

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hey. I noticed the thread below and though it would be interesting to see where everyone see's themselves in 5 -10 years. Do you see yourself as a private practice lawyer at a top tier firm? Do you think you'd like the lifestyle etc?

Indicate where YOU would like to be not where you think others would like you to be. I know this is a problem with some law students who study law to appease their parents or whoever.

Cheers and looking forward to the results.
 
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hfis

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I'd like to be at the bar eventually, although I'm not naive enough to see myself there in 5-10 years. I'll probably end up working like a slave for some medium-sized law firm before then; it's too early to tell for me at the moment.
 

BillytheFIsh

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hfis said:
I'd like to be at the bar eventually, although I'm not naive enough to see myself there in 5-10 years. I'll probably end up working like a slave for some medium-sized law firm before then; it's too early to tell for me at the moment.
Bah! It's not naive. The only way to learn how to be a barrister is to be a barrister. Have some confidence!

My personal aim is to be at the bar by 2010. So that means the next 4-5 involve pretty much just being a shit-kicker. Though it looks like I have reasonable prospects of a job with a boutique IP firm which is probably not such a bad place to be a shit-kicker.

Oh... an "SC" at the end of my name wouldn't be bad to have before I turn 40. (2024) I can accept that this ones probably a bit unrealistic, but no point aiming for mediocrity.
 

MiuMiu

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Exactly, theres nothing wrong with aiming high!

I really wanna work for legal aid. Always have. Im not in it for the money (nothing wrong with those who are), Im in it cos its something I really wanna do.
 

MoonlightSonata

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Considering that I am currently 20 and in 3rd year, this is my ideal timetable:

By 5 years - a solicitor at a firm
By 10 years - a barrister
By 25 years - a senior counsel
By 35 years - a NSWSC judge (depending)
 
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Frigid

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three years - gradded;
five years - working, top tier;
ten years - associate, more education wanted;
fifteen years - barring, teaching part-time;
twenty years - a mix of barring, teaching and maybe consulting.

...

forty years - just teaching, researching and writing :)

i wonder if i'll end up like lawrence ma
 
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santaslayer

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I'm happy just to work with/for the law at any level.

As long as I'm financially well off, I don't give a shit.

That's one sexy career history by lawrence ma:

Career history

Yeo Seng Lam Public Accountant (Singapore) - Tax accountant [January - March 1995]

KPMG Peat Marwick (Singapore) - Tax accountant [March - December 1995]

Tutor in Introduction to Law - Faculty of Law, University of Queensland [February - November 1997]

Tutor in Evidence Law - Faculty of Law, Queensland University of Technology [February - June 1998]

Barrister at Law (Australia) - [Since 21 April 1996]

Guest Lecturer in Trade Practices Law (Masters program) - Faculty of Law, University of Technology, Sydney [July 2001]

Guest Lecturer in Remedies (Injunction ) - Faculty of Law, University of NSW, Sydney [June 2003]
 

sikeveo

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I dont mean to be racist, but with law being so hard to get into (i.e uais are high), and heaps of asians/curries getting in, I never see them around the courts in the city? Do they pursue jobs elsewhere or are they still in uni (i.e this trend hasnt been for long) ??

Sorry if the answer is really obvious.
 

Frigid

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sikeveo said:
I dont mean to be racist, but with law being so hard to get into (i.e uais are high), and heaps of asians/curries getting in, I never see them around the courts in the city? Do they pursue jobs elsewhere or are they still in uni (i.e this trend hasnt been for long) ??

Sorry if the answer is really obvious.
the great majority of them end up being corporate junkies...

for the few that are not, it is probably still early days yet.
 

MoonlightSonata

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sikeveo said:
I dont mean to be racist, but with law being so hard to get into (i.e uais are high), and heaps of asians/curries getting in, I never see them around the courts in the city? Do they pursue jobs elsewhere or are they still in uni (i.e this trend hasnt been for long) ??

Sorry if the answer is really obvious.
A recent phenomenon
I think that it is a combination of factors but the main reason is, as you suggest, because the trend hasn't been going on for that long. The universities are spitting out a lot of asian graduates nowadays so the numbers of asian barristers should be significantly higher in about 15 years.

Familiarity with English
However another factor is that a lot of asian graduates, primarily because they are not as comfortable with the English language, may not be as suited to becoming barristers. Those taking on jobs in the legal profession tend to become solicitors in firms. The president of the UNSW Law Society, for example, is a guy who is extremely hard working, determined and capable - and will go on to work in a huge law firm. But comparatively, he has poor grammar and English, and speaks with a thick Honkie accent. Not exactly the ideal picture of a barrister one might have in mind.

Interest
Additionally, from my own observations, the proportion of asian law students who are not very interested in the law (and becoming a lawyer) are quite high in relation to others. (This ratio might be said to be threefold when you restrict it asian Com/Law students.)

Character and culture
Also, the number of asian law students who fit the typical 'advocate' mould - that is, a good speaker, adroit with language, etc - is quite low. Though I would imagine that the extent to which this is interest is outweighed by the extent to which it is personal character, it undoubtedly stems from a number of factors - background, conditioning, etc.

I cannot speak for all those who are asian but my guess is that there may be an element of upbringing involved in some situations. I was quite a loudmouth and very bossy when I was a child but I'm not sure if this would be appreciated (read: tolerated) as much in particular cultures. Considering the ability and love of arguing is a defining feature of barristers, cultures not as receptive to debating or questioning authority, particularly parental authority, may be a factor.

The old boys club
As you probably are aware, law used to be a very 'elite' profession, and it sort of still is, but the superficialities have been reduced on the employers' part. That is, one stood a far better chance if they were a white, anglo-saxon male with good connections, and with respectable schooling. Of course nowadays employers are concerned with a great range of factors, including university marks, personal skills, etc. But I mean, the idea of there being asian barristers 50 years ago would be laughable to the legal profession in those days.

Thankfully, though there may be residue in some corners, in regard to lawyers these days I think that this is no longer really a pressing issue. (Besides, some might say that the law firms won't have that much choice sooner or later.)

A caveat
Don't get me wrong, there are a number of great asian law students who are good orators and who are interested in becoming advocates. It's just that, due to the aforementioned reasons, that number is relatively small at the present time.
 
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santaslayer

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Honkies actually MAY use English in the Honkie courtrooms. A LOT of judges ONLY use English in HK because a lot of them are Englishmen. :)

I'm not sure about most asians but the sentiment I get in Australia is that if you can make the same amount of money on court or off, then why not do everything offcourt? Advocating takes a lot of time, effort, charisma and BRAINS. (esp for corporate and criminal).
Asians are prone to think like that. (in my family anyways.) What's more, advocating may not get you nearly as much money as doing normal solicoting work. You need to be very very good at the Bar to get really good money. Solicoting doesn't take as much dedication and 'skill level'.


If the courts were to use canto, i would fully consider the Bar. I think I'm better at canto then english in many respects. That's because I was brought up speaking primarily canto in the home. I also did a lot of canto schooling. (12 yrs :rolleyes: ) :p


Interest is a very real thing which Moonlight brought up. This can not be said for every asian, but this problem is very present.
 
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sikeveo

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At my school there are quite a few high achievers who have trouble with english and are going for com/law and will make it, that's why i was just wondering whether its worth it or not.
 

MiuMiu

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All the Asians I know doing Com/Law and Sydney and NSW (and all their Asian friends) don't even try that hard on their law degrees, because none of them want to end up in the legal field.
 

erawamai

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Ms 12 said:
All the Asians I know doing Com/Law and Sydney and NSW (and all their Asian friends) don't even try that hard on their law degrees, because none of them want to end up in the legal field.
At this point it should be made clear that it is only the asians that you know and not all asians. It should also be made clear that you are not making sweeping generations whereby all asian com law students are deemed to be not legally inclined because of their racial background. While true in some cases it is dramatically incorrect in others.

I'm sure Frigid, an asian com/law male, would object if that was the case!

--------

In term of career I was told that it is better to keep your options open. Not to make cold hard decisions when you are three years into your law degree.
 
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Frigid

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*frigey, procrastinating on crim essay*
I OBJECT!! :D

well, each to his/her own.

a few of my friends know, almost for certain, that they will not work in legal.

in all respects i concur with the opinion expressed by my brother erawamai.
 

suz

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like ms 12 i used to want to work for legal aid as well
now im leaning more towards human rights so i'm not too sure exactly what at the moment, but that is an area I would most definately be interested in
 

MiuMiu

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erawamai said:
At this point it should be made clear that it is only the asians that you know and not all asians. It should also be made clear that you are not making sweeping generations whereby all asian com law students are deemed to be not legally inclined because of their racial background. While true in some cases it is dramatically incorrect in others.
I said 'all the Asians I KNOW'....I thought I made it pretty clear. I did not purport to know all Asians doing Com/Law in Australia (should I have written that for you?), hell I don't even know a large number. I was not making a sweeping generalisation about all Asians, or even most Asians. JUST presenting to the forum the FACT that all the Asians I KNOW doing Com/Law do not want to have a career to do with law....I know about 11 I can think of off hand.

But feel free to make what I thought to be a fairly clear and transparent post even more clear, whatever.
 

erawamai

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When someone says something along the lines of 'well all the people I know so and so' it can read in a way so as to infer that the author is making a claim the whole group. It's also used in an argumentative way so as to back up someones argument (badly).

All the Black people I know are criminals.

All the White people I know are lazy.

All the law students I know from UOW are bad law students.

It can encourage people to impute traits to people who do not deserve such description as people tend to assume that traits are common to whatever groups you are describing...because there is no outward way for anyone reading your comment to be able to tell who the trait is to be imputed to because we do not know who your friends are.

When the boundaries are blurry people will impute that trait to everyone.

g8 law snob 1 'Yeah our uni is the best

g8 law snob 2 'Yeah all the law students I know from uow law are crap'

g8 law snob 1 'Yeah, uow law school is crap'

person 1 'fucking white people. They are so lazy'

person 2 'All the white people I know are lazy'

person 1 ' yep. They are lazy'
 
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X

xeuyrawp

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BillytheFIsh said:
Bah! It's not naive. The only way to learn how to be a barrister is to be a barrister. Have some confidence!
That's what I've been told, too :D
 

santaslayer

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erawamai said:
When someone says something along the lines of 'well all the people I know so and so' it can read in a way so as to infer that the author is making a claim the whole group. It's also used in an argumentative way so as to back up someones argument (badly).

All the Black people I know are criminals.

All the White people I know are lazy.

All the law students I know from UOW are bad law students.

It can encourage people to impute traits to people who do not deserve such description as people tend to assume that traits are common to whatever groups you are describing...because there is no outward way for anyone reading your comment to be able to tell who the trait is to be imputed to because we do not know who your friends are.

When the boundaries are blurry people will impute that trait to everyone.

g8 law snob 1 'Yeah our uni is the best

g8 law snob 2 'Yeah all the law students I know from uow law are crap'

g8 law snob 1 'Yeah, uow law school is crap'

person 1 'fucking white people. They are so lazy'

person 2 'All the white people I know are lazy'

person 1 ' yep. They are lazy'
Meh. :p

With all due respect:

Funny attempt at backing up what you said previously.

It would be interesting to see how you interpret your various law readings.
 

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