Which Do You Think Is Harder? (1 Viewer)

[pLuvia]

For example, in my half-yearly I think I only used my calculator two or three times, and only with simple things I could have easily done in my head.

Same in my half yearly for 4u maths, I think I only used my calculator once or twice. 4u maths is more about proof like questions more than straight answers like 3u and 2u. The beauty of 4u maths

 

[garbagedump]

yea...eng ext 2 is sooooo fckn hard that they let you do ur "assesments" at home.

 

[funnybunny]

lol..the only reason they introduced eng ext 2 was because english students were complaining that there's a maths ext 2, but no eng ext 2.

 

[kami]

This is just to see which subjects people think is harder. Mainly because I'm sick of hearing that Maths Ext 2 is soooo much harder than English Ext 2, and English Ext 2 is nothing. I wouldn't know which is harder as I'm not doing Maths Ext 2, but personally, English Ext 2 is proving to be quite a struggle also (mainly cos im lazy, but anyways..)..

Yes. So what's your view?

You are never going to get a definitive answer in this - ever. This is simply because too many people will bring in their personal prejudices and too few people have even attempted both. Personally as someone who has done both, I think the two subjects are incomparable on any scale of difficulty because they test different skills using different formats and different marking criterion.

I would also like to point out to the people dismissing Ext 2 English due to its 'tailored' or 'take home' format, that this same format exists for the lion's share of Honours, Masters and Doctorate degrees regardless of the subject. Yet I doubt you'll see people rubbishing a Doctorate because its a take home kind of degree.

Also:

Mathematics Extension 2 on the other hand involves a study of highly advanced level mathematics (at university level) and very deep understanding of the mechanisms involved in Mathematics, these topics are fixed and are not always going to be interesting.

As someone who is going to university I can honestly say that the HSC subjects are hardly examined at university level, and that even the extensions have many generic and superficial elements. Also, one may say that the topics in Mathematics Extension 2 are not interesting, yet they would have chosen to do the course regardless - seems like a choice of topic to me.

 

[omar273]

I think you can make it hard for urself (ipse est, do something you dont enjoy)

I think the Latin term you're looking for is id est (which means that is).
anyway, my thoughts on this: definitely maths ext 2 is much harder than english ext 2.

Have you seen some of the higher order maths in the syllabus? Resisted motion? Circular motion? CONICS? so much harder than "write a story" for a whole bloody year.

 

[Bookie]

Out of these options, EE2 is probably easier.

But maths isnt hard either. I dont get why so many people are worked up about the difficulty of MX2. Before I started it, people were like "you'll need to devote more than half your study time to maths" or "4u maths takes about 3 hours of homework every night".

Bullshit. I dont think I've worked more than an hour ever for MX2. I admit I give half my study time to it but thjats becuse I dont like other subjects (except cosmology, which takes up the other half of my study time). People complain too much. We're having our first MX2 assessment next week and I'm not too fussed. Neside me sits my Patel book which I havw worked on for half an hour, and will do so for another half hour. Not much more. Leading up to the exam I will do many past papers. Not hard if you love the subject. If you dont love it, you shouldnt be doing it in the first place.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I think the Latin term you're looking for is id est (which means that is).
anyway, my thoughts on this: definitely maths ext 2 is much harder than english ext 2.

Have you seen some of the higher order maths in the syllabus? Resisted motion? Circular motion? CONICS? so much harder than "write a story" for a whole bloody year.

well if you put it that way of course! Actually there are several options in English Extension 2, such as writing an essay, poetry etc. It's not as easy as writing and making it sound nice. Some philosophical thought, sophistication are put into it. As someone else had said (after I said it in the previous post), they're far too different to compare. They are different sides of the brain etc.

It also depends on how you learn. With maths, there are a substantial amount of formulas to remember, and require the ability to understand and solve very complex ideas.

With English, you need to initiate and create complexity, and have a good sense of culture. This is as simply as I'll put it. These are both difficult in their own right, but far too different to compare.

It doesn't take someone to have done both subjects to know that these extension subjects are very different. The creative and philosophical side of the brain vs the logical side of the brain?

Doesn't take half a brain to know it's silly to compare.

Childish even.

 

[luscious-llama]

Hmmm I adore EE2 and I think its slightly harder in difficulty than MX2 only because its creative and subjective.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

EE2 is in all probability, easier to do but harder to master.

Plus within a few year of uni maths most of MX2 is covered if you need it anyway.

 

[Trebla]

As someone who is going to university I can honestly say that the HSC subjects are hardly examined at university level, and that even the extensions have many generic and superficial elements.

A lot of university courses that have assumed knowledge for HSC courses do actually cover some aspects of the course. For example, in courses like engineering, a lot of the Mathematics Extension 2 topics is pretty much covered in the first year.

Also, one may say that the topics in Mathematics Extension 2 are not interesting, yet they would have chosen to do the course regardless - seems like a choice of topic to me.

There's a difference between being good at something and being interested in it. A lot of people who are talented at Mathematics do not necessarily enjoy it. Depending on the person, some topics are far more interesting than others. Many do it for the scaling. Others do it because they like to challenge themselves.

But maths isnt hard either. I dont get why so many people are worked up about the difficulty of MX2. Before I started it, people were like "you'll need to devote more than half your study time to maths" or "4u maths takes about 3 hours of homework every night".

Bullshit. I dont think I've worked more than an hour ever for MX2. I admit I give half my study time to it but thjats becuse I dont like other subjects (except cosmology, which takes up the other half of my study time). People complain too much. We're having our first MX2 assessment next week and I'm not too fussed. Neside me sits my Patel book which I havw worked on for half an hour, and will do so for another half hour. Not much more. Leading up to the exam I will do many past papers. Not hard if you love the subject. If you dont love it, you shouldnt be doing it in the first place.

That's because you've only begun learning it for a term and have yet to experience the true difficulty or challenging nature of this course. By now, your school would have probably finished about 2-3 topics and I doubt you would have covered the hard stuff such as Mechanics and Harder Extension 1 yet. Also, we're talking about difficulty of the course content, not the level of committment.

There is objective evidence that English Extension 2 is somewhat easier than Mathematics Extension 2. Looking at table A3 (http://www.uac.edu.au/pubs/pdf/2005-Table-A3.pdf), over 1% of the candidature scored 50/50 in English Extension 2, while the top mark for Mathematics Extension 2 was 49.5/50 with the 99th percentile being 48/50.
Looking at the scaled marks, at 48/50 (top 10%) in English Extension 2 corresponds to a scaled mark of 44.9 while 50/50 (top 1%) has a scaled mark ranging from 49.1 to 50.0.
In Mathematics Extension 2, at 46.5/50 (top 10%) the corresponds to a scaled mark of 48.2 while 48/50 (top 1%) has a scaled mark of 49.5 and 49.5/50 has a scaled mark of 50.
Looking at these results it can be seen that a 48/50 (corresponding scaled mark: 44.9) in English Extension 2 is easier to gain than a 48/50 (corresponding scaled mark: 49.5) in Mathematics Extension 2 because the scaled mark is higher in Mathematics Extension 2. Therefore higher marks in English Extension 2 are easier to gain than higher marks in Mathematics Extension 2.

 

[Bookie]

That's because you've only begun learning it for a term and have yet to experience the true difficulty or challenging nature of this course. By now, your school would have probably finished about 2-3 topics and I doubt you would have covered the hard stuff such as Mechanics and Harder Extension 1 yet. Also, we're talking about difficulty of the course content, not the level of committment.

We've done complex, polynomials, integration, curve sketching and harder 3u. its hard but do-able.

 

[Bookie]

That's because you've only begun learning it for a term and have yet to experience the true difficulty or challenging nature of this course. By now, your school would have probably finished about 2-3 topics and I doubt you would have covered the hard stuff such as Mechanics and Harder Extension 1 yet. Also, we're talking about difficulty of the course content, not the level of committment.

We've done complex, polynomials, integration, curve sketching and harder 3u. its hard but do-able.

 

[kami]

A lot of university courses that have assumed knowledge for HSC courses do actually cover some aspects of the course. For example, in courses like engineering, a lot of the Mathematics Extension 2 topics is pretty much covered in the first year.

You'll find that the discrete mathematics in say software engineering actually makes the MX2 course look like childs play. The nature of the MX2 course is far more generic and syllabus bound than university maths and it doesnt really work out to equate MX2 with university maths - the content is far more regulated and examination standards are far lower.

There's a difference between being good at something and being interested in it. A lot of people who are talented at Mathematics do not necessarily enjoy it. Depending on the person, some topics are far more interesting than others. Many do it for the scaling. Others do it because they like to challenge themselves.

You mentioned that choice was a factor in determining how a student would cope with the content - yet you chose to study this course when you did not have to, meaning you chose to do these topics. As did everyone else. And those who do it only for the scaling would face the problem of lack of interest whether its MX2 or EE2 or Latin etc.

There is objective evidence that English Extension 2 is somewhat easier than Mathematics Extension 2. Looking at table A3 (http://www.uac.edu.au/pubs/pdf/2005-Table-A3.pdf), over 1% of the candidature scored 50/50 in English Extension 2, while the top mark for Mathematics Extension 2 was 49.5/50 with the 99th percentile being 48/50.
Looking at the scaled marks, at 48/50 (top 10%) in English Extension 2 corresponds to a scaled mark of 44.9 while 50/50 (top 1%) has a scaled mark ranging from 49.1 to 50.0.
In Mathematics Extension 2, at 46.5/50 (top 10%) the corresponds to a scaled mark of 48.2 while 48/50 (top 1%) has a scaled mark of 49.5 and 49.5/50 has a scaled mark of 50.
Looking at these results it can be seen that a 48/50 (corresponding scaled mark: 44.9) in English Extension 2 is easier to gain than a 48/50 (corresponding scaled mark: 49.5) in Mathematics Extension 2 because the scaled mark is higher in Mathematics Extension 2. Therefore higher marks in English Extension 2 are easier to gain than higher marks in Mathematics Extension 2.

There is no such thing as an objective measure of ease or difficulty, and you'd be hard pressed to find an objective measure of achievement. All that data does is record the number of achievers, nothing more.

The scaling also is not a reflection of the course difficulty, for example I'm sure the vast majority of students would fail miserably in Arabic yet somehow it is one of the lowest scaled subject groups.

 

[luscious-llama]

EE2 is in all probability, easier to do but harder to master.

Too true

 

[Emph]

I would say that to a MX2 person, EE2 would seem hard and the other way round. Someone with an "english brain" would find it hard coping with copious amounts of maths.

In all honesty it does appear that MX2 would be hearder because come on guys, us EE2 people have nearly a whole YEAR to write a 15 page or so story or essay or whatever. Saying this though- it is A LOT of work... but we have just under a year to do it.

Really I dont think there is a clear answer to this question... it is all too subjective.

 

[xtol]

LOLOLOLOL!!! TN u jerk-ish pansy.

*chucks a maths ext 2 textbook, calculator and gridbook towards you*

i know what your thinking!!

 

[gracie007]

What!! I can't believe some ppl think Eng is harder. But its prob cause i think eng is soo easy. its a bullshit course. but even if i wasnt good at eng id imagine maths to be harder anyway

 

[garbagedump]

eng is soo easy. its a bullshit course.

Indeed u have the force with u...
Eng ext2 =shit

 

[Trebla]

You mentioned that choice was a factor in determining how a student would cope with the content - yet you chose to study this course when you did not have to, meaning you chose to do these topics. As did everyone else. And those who do it only for the scaling would face the problem of lack of interest whether its MX2 or EE2 or Latin etc.

Like I said, there are heaps of people who are good at the course but are not necessarily interested in all of it. Such people choose the course because they are able to gain good marks in it. Inversely, there are those who are very interested in the course but are hopeless at it. Even for those who are interested in Mathematics, there will be a few aspects of the course which do not interest them. They still take the course because the majority of the course is do-able and perhaps interesting. I mean, who would disregard a course if there was only a topic or two that didn't interest them? Just because you're interested in a course, doesn't mean you'll be good at it. Just because you're good at a course doesn't mean that you'll be interested in it.

 

[A l]

The scaling also is not a reflection of the course difficulty, for example I'm sure the vast majority of students would fail miserably in Arabic yet somehow it is one of the lowest scaled subject groups.

The reason for that is because the vast majority of students who take the course tend to perform poorly across other courses.

There is no such thing as an objective measure of ease or difficulty, and you'd be hard pressed to find an objective measure of achievement. All that data does is record the number of achievers, nothing more.

Obviously, due to the vast differences in the two courses they cannot be directly compared in difficulty. However, looking at Table A3 it would be valid to say that more people score higher aligned marks in English Extension 2 than in Mathematics Extension 2. For example for more students have scored band E4 in English Extension 2 than in Mathematics Extension 2.
Scaling is dependent on the performance of the candidature and how they compare to a common statewide scale. In a course containing very talented students who perform well across other courses, the scaling would be high. In a course containing less able students who score poorly across other courses, the scaling would be low.
If the scaling system was ideal then according to the scaled marks, it shows that relatively less talented (lower ranked) students are scoring higher aligned marks in English Extension 2 than in Mathematics Extension 2. Thus, it indicates the standards and performance descriptors for English Extension 2 per band make way for slightly lower ranked students to gain access to higher bands. Keep in mind that we are talking about different groups of students in relative position to the state, not the difficulty of the course.
Interpreting the data in this way implies that it was easier for English Extension 2 students to gain access to higher marks. However, what is really happening is that theoretically, lower ranked students relative to the state (on a common scale) are scoring higher aligned marks in English Extension 2 than in Mathematics Extension 2.