Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extension 2? (1 Viewer)

[lyounamu]

Okay first of all, 09ers have not done year 12 ANYTHING. I have done year 12 extension 2 maths, and some year 12 extension 1 english. I also have friends who do the other courses and I see a lot of their work and gain an understanding of what it takes to do the subject.

In short, the preliminary course is nothing, so you can't make blanket statements on either extension 2 course.

Hahahaha...don't you think it is highly contradictory, mate? Your original post was describing how arrogant I was and now, it seems that you got out of your head here. Seriously, being Year 12 doesn't mean that much. I have personally done some acceleration on few subjects myself and I can say that I am not a complete dumb in regards to this issue. As Continuum said, work on English, mate. At that rate, it will drag your UAI down to bottom 50 UAI.

 

[Wassup?]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Sorry, in future I shall adjust to my posts for people who cannot understand English to the extent where most people can do.

This post is so very ironic. Namu, I'm not taking a shot at your English abilities, but before you start critisicing another's English ability, make sure your own English is up to scratch.

BTW, would you have a sheet that has all the formulaes required for the 2 unit Maths course?

 

[lyounamu]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

This post is so very ironic. Namu, I'm not taking a shot at your English abilities, but before you start critisicing another's English ability, make sure your own English is up to scratch.

BTW, would you have a sheet that has all the formulaes required for the 2 unit Maths course?

As far as I see, I cannot find any errors there.

And I don't have any formula sheet, sorry. But I think you can find some stuffs from the Fitzpatrick book if you have one. Alternatively, you can go to the Resource Page.

 

[Wassup?]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

As far as I see, I cannot find any errors there.

And I don't have any formula sheet, sorry. But I think you can find some stuffs from the Fitzpatrick book if you have one. Alternatively, you can go to the Resource Page.

Well, it should have been:

"Sorry, in future I shall adjust my posts for people who cannot understand English to the extent most people can."

 

[lyounamu]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Well, it should have been:

"Sorry, in future I shall adjust my posts for people who cannot understand English to the extent most people can."

Haha... accidentally added the "to".

 

[Zarafaraway]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

I think maths, because really, anyone with a basic skill in english could put together a 4u english major work if they worked hard enough at it and get a decent mark. For maths though, a certain skill is required, and there are some people, who no matter how hard they work at 4u maths won't be able to do it.

trust me, im coming close to top of 3 unit english and i dropped ext 2 this year because i found it too hard
there is a lot more to it than people think
that said, im not a maths person so im in awe of people that can do 4unit

 

[porquoispas]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Trust me guys... You might think that extension 2 maths is more "prestigious" because it scales higher and its allegedly harder but seriously extension 2 english isn't just about writing a story..

As someone said before anyone with succint knowledge of english can write a story but theres a difference between any story and a good story...

What makes this subject hard is that it is extremely subjective.. I mean you hand in something to your teacher and they say to you "that's to cliche" and if you try to deviate from that they'll say to you "You're trying to be too clever". It's sooo hard to please teacher's and markers.

In maths as long as you answer the question you get the marks but in english you have to make sure that the language you use is adequate, that the 50 year old marker is going to like it, you have to ensure that you get good enough internal marks...list goes on..

I'm not trying to undemrine maths ext 2.. I know its a lot of hard work every night.. but if an ext 2 student puts in the same amount of work every night.. they're not guaranteed to get good marks whereas in maths if you study hard enough and u know ur stuff then u get the marks..

Someone might kill themselves working on a major work for the whole year, only to find out that their major work wasn't original enough or that it was too ambitious..

 

[Garygaz]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

yup, and in terms of workload, you need little.

contrasting with 4 unit maths; where you not only need the intelligence and ability to grasp hard concepts, but also the hard work to perservere.

but none of this really answers the question of which is more prestiguous to be honest...:uhhuh:

I really hope you're trolling....

If you're trying to pass off the workload of an EE2 student, you have no idea what it involves. If you don't believe me, go get the young writers 2007 book and watch some of the movies, then tell me it doesn't require any work. People at my school have been driving out to different locations, taking multiple shots of a scene over multiple days, spending weeks editting, composing reflection statements, composing scripts.

YOU CAN'T COMPARE A HUMANITIES SUBJECT TO A SCIENCE SUBJECT, THEY ARE TWO COMPLETE DIFFERENT STREAMS OF THOUGHT.

Goddamn worst idea for a thread... EVER

/thread

 

[u-borat]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

err no.

you can put as much effort as you want to into anything you want; but little work in eext 2 can get you decent marks; as opposed to maths ext 2, where you will fail unless you put in a huge amount of work.

 

[Garygaz]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

err no.

you can put as much effort as you want to into anything you want; but little work in eext 2 can get you decent marks; as opposed to maths ext 2, where you will fail unless you put in a huge amount of work.

It's obvious that I can't argue with you if your views are the naive. Anyone who is smart enough can get through Ext2 English or maths without any work, as long as they understand the concepts. One of my friends who went to Sydney Grammer knew a guy who did Ext 2 maths and got 50/50 with minimal study because he was a maths genius. Similarly, a guy at our school a few years back got 50/50 by powering through his major work in one holidays. By saying you can just piece together a story in a week and that it requires no skill is absurd. By saying it requires no skill you obviously have a serious lack of respect for any form of literature, Shakespeare would be turning in his grave.

Once again let me reiterate the stupidity at creating this thread.

 

[u-borat]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

im not talking about geniuses here; im talking about any semi-decent ability to write and flesh out ideas will net you a decent mark in eext2 with little work.
a semi-decent ability in mathematics netted me a 54% in my first 4 unit exam cos i thought i'd be able to breeze through it like previously.

and a serious lack of respect for literature? if you say so.

 

[AppleNader]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

im not talking about geniuses here; im talking about any semi-decent ability to write and flesh out ideas will net you a decent mark in eext2 with little work.
a semi-decent ability in mathematics netted me a 54% in my first 4 unit exam cos i thought i'd be able to breeze through it like previously.

and a serious lack of respect for literature? if you say so.

Yeah that's 54% at Kings, If you were at a real school you'd get 34%.

 

[Bobness]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Oh i'm going to love correcting the misconceptions.

Personally I think HSC English has been degraded to the point of being a joke, perhaps this is just at my school. It's always a problem when a subject is based on subjective learning. Everything is a text now, everything has some sort of deeper-meaning and there is a tendency for over-analysis and treating texts as some sort of fig-leaf for the author's political views (which usually turn out to be very left wing - no surprise here).

Thus I think Maths come out the winner, its hard to corrupt a subject that is so objective. Although we have seen that it is possible with today's joke of a Physics course.

Also, Lyounamu, I don't know why but you seem to think you are some sort of maths god and you speak for all the maths focused people out there. You aren't and you don't. At least wait until you get into year 12 and are doing extension 2 maths before you start getting all cocky, although it would be preferable if you didn't act like that ever.

I agree that advanced English is a bit of a farce. Because people learn English not for English, but for marks. They learn essays. Not English. Not to mention the ever-sickening "JOURNEYzZz r GrEaT!!" thesis lines we have to spew out, just because the rubric leans that way.

Extension Two English is one of the truly "creative" courses.

While i agree with both your comments that English (in particular standard) has increasingly become shall we say 'more reductive', i believe part of the reason for this can be traced to two things.

The first is that english is compulsory for all students: as a result there will inevitably be a backlash from the community, particularly immigrant families, as there is a perceived sense of 'prejudice' that has only been exaggerated by mass media. In answer to this, every developed nation with a strong educational system i know of (USA, UK et al) has english or the national language (ie French literature in France - correct me if i'm wrong, as i took this from the semi-reliable wiki site) as a compulsory program. So while analysing cereal boxes at texts, may appear base to literature aficionados, it does broaden the perspectives of others who may later appreciate / gain an understanding of for eg the 'powerplay' of advertisements (module c adv) or the propagation of 'images' (module a standard).

The second is that, as a result of its compulsory status, many students then lose interest in appreciating the intrinsic beauty of literature forcing teachers to encourage 'reductive' strategies of extracting any and all meaning from texts. They must do this, as it is the only way students will come to understand how text a speaks of issue b in society c. It gives the students a way of exercising their skills in coming up with an individual response that meshes syllabus understandings with philosophical (personal) insights.

While English (esp standard) does cater for the lowest common denominator, and alienates those of us looking on in horror as texts are now metaphorically strapped to chairs to have all meaning 'beaten' out of them, it at least means that elevated literature such as Shakespeare, drama and poetry are accessible to those who would not have picked it up otherwise.

And for those of us (like Zephyrio) who are strong English students with a passion that transcends the confines of the subject rubrics, then it provides further inspiration to continue with English studies at university. As the idiom goes: "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and being deprived of a suitable outlet in the HSC context can definitely inspire you to delve into postcolonial and formalist criticism in a rigorous academic tertiary-level context. The enthusiastic student cohorts (at UNSW, and from all accounts, USYD as well) foster a lifelong ambition in the field I am actually indebted to the idiosyncratic concerns of HSC English Advanced and Extension, for without its limited focus i would not have seriously considered undertaking transcendental literature studies as a degree

***

In answer to OP's question, English Extension Two is far more prestigious. It is undertaken by a smaller student cohort ('prestige' is normally defined in economic / social / political terms as being restricted to a 'top tier' ie the most 'prestigious' universities in the world are the most difficult to enter) and while the percentage of E4s is pretty even between the two subjects, due to the inherent scaling and aligning, it is far more difficult to score a 'higher' mark in EE2 (that counts towards one's UAI) than MX2.

In any case, those who undertake MX2 (without a background in EE2) will find it difficult to develop a cogent argument that effectively supports their subjective viewpoint in relation to 'prestige' so i would argue that this thread is fairly discriminatory Maybe all posters must incorporate a graph and complex numbers to make their point?

i* for one would be in support.






*Lulz, cwotididthar?

 

[karnage]

ME2 for sure

Anyone who puts themselves through that sort of torture deserves my respect.

Although to a lesser extent, EE2 is quite 'prestigious' too i guess.

 

[midifile]

Why do people associate time spent on a subject with prestiege?

I'm sure there are students who spend more time on their art and DT major works than some people do on maths and english ext 2. Does that mean that art and DT are more prestigous than maths ext 2 and english ext 2?

 

[bawd]

I vote EX2. MX2 doesn't have the prestige-sounding ness as EX2 does, and EX2 requires a proposal and invitation into the class at my school.

 

[Razzah]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

classic english student waffle. perhaps you should have looked up some definitions of 'prestige' before you typed that essay, bobness (aka fag).



prestige... its not about which one you think is more prestigious, its all about widespread respect and admiraton. just check out the poll results bobness, widespread respect winning it for MX2. more people clearly feel it has a higher quality (probably because it doesnt contain subjective dribble) hence it is more prestigious from definition.

Q.E.D.

or should i say checkmate?

Hahaha, classic.


Well, something I noticed at our school (and our school is a top 30 school), is that many of the Extension 2 English lads can't hang on to a top 40 rank (out of 120) in Advanced English with the exception of a few guys. Also, a lot of the 'non-creative' and 'trapped in the box' Extension 2 Maths guys are quite comfortably in the top 40.

Personally, I think that says a lot more about the nature of Extension 2 English than any of these arguments....

 

[sonyaleeisapixi]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

What, from one school?

I do 4u English and General maths.

I first in all my units of English and 5th in general maths.

The girl doing 4u english with me also does 4u math. First in 4u math, 2 in all her 4u of english.

4u Maths and English are too vastly different to compare. The work load for both is immense and challenging. How so varies because of the nature of the courses; they're polar opposites.

4u english is prestigious because of the mw being juggle with your other units and such
4u math is prestigious because it is incrediably complex math being managed along side with your other units.

 

[.:AmBeR.SmItH:.]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

What, from one school?

I do 4u English and General maths.

I first in all my units of English and 5th in general maths.

The girl doing 4u english with me also does 4u math. First in 4u math, 2 in all her 4u of english.

4u Maths and English are too vastly different to compare. The work load for both is immense and challenging. How so varies because of the nature of the courses; they're polar opposites.

4u english is prestigious because of the mw being juggle with your other units and such
4u math is prestigious because it is incrediably complex math being managed along side with your other units.

and no one could have said it any better!!

 

[Bobness]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

classic english student waffle. perhaps you should have looked up some definitions of 'prestige' before you typed that essay, bobness (aka fag).

prestige


The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English | Date: 2008

pres·tige / presˈtēzh; -ˈtēj/ • n. widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality: he experienced a tremendous increase in prestige following his victory. ∎ [as adj.] denoting something that arouses such respect or admiration: prestige wines.


prestige... its not about which one you think is more prestigious, its all about widespread respect and admiraton. just check out the poll results bobness, widespread respect winning it for MX2. more people clearly feel it has a higher quality (probably because it doesnt contain subjective dribble) hence it is more prestigious from definition.

Q.E.D.

or should i say checkmate?

HAHAHA you actually made a fool of yourself with that post, but it's been overlooked by others (until now).

Anywho, if you're going to deconstruct my post (which you didn't: instead making broad generalisations) then do it properly, or i won't be bothered reading next time.

In answer to OP's question, English Extension Two is far more prestigious. It is undertaken by a smaller student cohort ('prestige' is normally defined in economic / social / political terms as being restricted to a 'top tier' ie the most 'prestigious' universities in the world are the most difficult to enter) and while the percentage of E4s is pretty even between the two subjects, due to the inherent scaling and aligning, it is far more difficult to score a 'higher' mark in EE2 (that counts towards one's UAI) than MX2.

In any case, those who undertake MX2 (without a background in EE2) will find it difficult to develop a cogent argument that effectively supports their subjective viewpoint in relation to 'prestige' so i would argue that this thread is fairly discriminatory Maybe all posters must incorporate a graph and complex numbers to make their point?

i* for one would be in support.






*Lulz, cwotididthar?

Ok now let's look at the definition of 'waffle' (from your post).

I don't install pocket dictionaries on my computer, like your good self so we'll use wikipedia's definition (which is actually verified by the Princeton dictionary, but i'll let your lack of research capabilities handle that).

The term waffle, particularly outside of the U.S., denotes language without meaning; blathering, babbling, droning. One might waffle throughout an essay or a presentation, when not having enough material or needing to fill in time.

I outlined my reasons in two separate clauses: one with regards to the smaller cohort that undertakes EE2, two with regards to how marks are normally lower for EE2 (after scaling) so to score highly in it is 'more prestigious'.

Unless you understood the mathematical allusion to be waffling? In which case, it supports the preconception that those who study '3unitz' (not the general cohort, just yourself) are deplorably unfunny.

prestige... its not about which one you think is more prestigious, its all about widespread respect and admiraton. just check out the poll results bobness, widespread respect winning it for MX2. more people clearly feel it has a higher quality (probably because it doesnt contain subjective dribble) hence it is more prestigious from definition.

Apart from your atrocious grammar, you haven't really outlined any form of argument but engaged in ad hominem. 'Widespread respect and admiration' is in regards to "something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality" (ibid; oxford definition) and an internet poll does not demonstrate 'higher quality'. Higher quality in this case, refers to (as i have outlined earlier) the smaller candidature that undertakes EE2 - in this way the definition supports EE2 as arousing "such respect or admiration" (ibid) because this respect is distributed across a smaller no. of students.

And my god, have you even learnt anything in mathematics? If you were aware that MX2 has a larger student cohort than EE2, than generally, in any unbiased polls that are undertaken, MX2 would trump EE2 in such a polarising question.

Q.E.D.

or should i say checkmate?

Was this even a proof? If you understand the nature of web dialogue, it implies that a reply is expected, so "by definition" you did not 'prove' anything, only contributed to the debate.

Oh and are you insecure that someone so versed in the arts could most likely demolish you in a logical game?

***

(3unitz shouldn't read this)

I actually believe MX2 is far more difficult and requires more 'intelligence' (vs. creativity) than EE2. In this way, i believe those who undertake MX2 deserve the utmost respect for studying one of the few subjects in the HSC context that has not been reduced to mere dotpoints.

Posters like lyounamu (he was most balanced), Aerath and u-borat have provided some very good reasons as to why MX2 is more prestigious, and i agree with them on almost all points. I hope the older users such as 3unitz, can gain a sense of maturity from these posters, because really, there's no way this thread will yield a 100% correct answer. It's a shame that those with an agenda (see above) are so adamant in claiming one trumps the other through 'hard results' such as internet polls or 'proofs', with no other purpose than to denigrate those who disagree with them.

I've played the devil's advocate, and hopefully a more balanced perspective towards the similarities of these subjects, through the integration of binary views, may now arise.

Again, if you are going to comment / refute / support my post, please continue an argument of the points, rather than asserting your own ego on others. I'm not dealing with pettiness in the future.