Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extension 2? (1 Viewer)

[midifile]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Yeah, except that my school is the only one in Canberra that does the HSC.

Okay, thats fine that your school does the HSC.

But it's just ironic that you highlighted NSW (HSC), to make your point that people in year 11 should not be posting on this thread, when you aren't from NSW.

And also, may I point out that the year 11 and year 10 subforums are under the NSW (HSC) heading, so I guess it is refering to all the students in the NSW system rather than just those doing their HSC this year.

 

[johndownes]

General Maths beats Ext. 2 English.

 

[runnable]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

General Maths beats Ext. 2 English.

You wish.

 

[Aerath]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

Just highlighting the fact that this is a HSC forum...

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr valign="bottom"><td></td> <td> </td> <td width="100%">Bored of Studies > Secondary Education > New South Wales (HSC) > Year 11 - Preliminary HSC</td></tr></tbody></table>

Oh, shit. Guess we're not allowed to post in the Prelim forum either cause it has "NSW - HSC".

 

[nrs1990]

well i have a friend who is mediocre at 2 unit advanced english, wrote in his journal thingo major work everyday for like 30minutes/1hour for ext 2 english and ended up getting 95 for it.

whereas i know people who were accelerants in maths and got 98 for their Maths in 2006 and in 2007 for maths 4unit they got like 85. id say maths extension 2 requires ALOT more skill to do.

i know some1 who does both this year and says that maths extension 2 takes alot out of him.

Perhaps you should consider the possibility that English Advanced (essays) uses a different skillset to English Extension 2, which involves creative pieces? So arguing the fact that someone does better in English Extension 2 than Advanced, while others do worse in Maths Extension 2 than 2 Unit strikes me as a bit... pointless and irrelevant.

yup, and in terms of workload, you need little.

contrasting with 4 unit maths; where you not only need the intelligence and ability to grasp hard concepts, but also the hard work to perservere.

but none of this really answers the question of which is more prestiguous to be honest...:uhhuh:

Both subjects require a lot of work to do well in. I should know.

I agree with the people who say this is a stupid discussion; the only reason I got involved was because I hated the way people were putting down English Extension 2. Seriously, it is hard work, it's not just some bludge subject.

(For the record, though, maths seems to be more prestigious. People seem to be more impressed when someone tops the grade in a maths extension 2 assessment task than in an english extension 2 task. They also seem to think that doing the maths is more impressive than doing the english, despite the higher candidature for maths extension 2. Or at least that's the impression I get.)

 

[Bobness]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

I have that advanced problem as well. I'm ranked 1st in both my extension classes (english) but my advanced rank is somewhat lower (still up the top, but not as high). I think the reason for that is that I overlook advanced. The skills in all the courses overlap, but the content does not, unlike maths. I know that advanced is easier, so I tend to leave study to the last minute which obviously doesn't go in my favour

Bobness: I want to do your degree. I always wanted to major in English lit, but I wasn't sure how useful it would be for law. How is it?

I would agree that the skill set required for extension two maths is very interchangeable with many subjects (extension one maths, physics, even certain formulae in chemistry and biology); however the ideas and philosophy taught in extension two english can still be transferable in a range of humanities incl. history extension (modern and ancient history, although less so), drama (particularly with the major work), visual arts and society and culture.

English advanced is a very idiosyncratic course with specific essay construction guidelines; English extension is similar, however with a stronger focus on integrated arguments and textual analysis (ie for the extended response you must use at least 2 prescribed texts and 2 related, and even for creatives they expect you to show insightful knowledge of the texts studied under the umbrella term of your 'module' and/or 'elective'); English extension two is really just a course about discipline, creativity and perseverance (and luck).

As you can see above, extension english two, while it has many intrinsic links with other humanities; it is actually quite different to english advanced and extension one. This is probably why you are in your situation (like many) at the moment humglish, and why the course is berated for its lack of consistency. However, it is this inability to pin down an A range response in a 140+ page syllabus, which makes the course so well-defined (lulz maths). It replicates what goes on in the academy in university and beyond: there, works of textual integrity are judged by a panel/critics all with their personal ideologies (Marxist, Feminist, Modernist, Postmodernist, Ecological, Postcolonial, New Critics, Deconstructionists, Bloomian et al).

By no means does this mean EE2 > MX2 in prestige; however it does mean that if you intend to go on and undertake literary studies, EE2 would provide you with the necessary platform and you would have studied a 'prestigious course' insofar that university lecturers themselves recognise the difficulty of writing a 6 000 - 8 000 word MW. I assume this is similar to the MX2 candidature who go on to study actuarial or science/engineering.

Can this debate just end? Even the MX2ers are starting to see the logic i have earlier outlined. And yes MX2 is probably more prestigious in the HSC context, but really do you think you are smarter for knowing it? Do the maths. And the english. And then the rest of my exams

****

Humglish, as you won't be able to PM me (my inbox is full) i'll answer your question here.

Yes, english studies would be 'beneficial' for law - but then, as law draws upon a variety of contextual and historical traditions - many majors in arts and even in commerce and science would be useful (ie japanese/french/german would be useful if you wanted to read cases in other common law or constrasting civil law jurisdictions; economics provides a good framework for understanding social relations; science uses logic and 'empirical' paradigms that can help untangle the abstraction within legal discourse).

Personally, the strengths of studying english together with law are:

1) English classes are always heavy on critical debate and verbal discussions which provide great practice for law tutorials at UNSW. Both my english and law subjects have on average 20% weighting just for class participation. No commerce (did econ) or science (have done psychology) courses i have taken had more than 5% class mark. NB this is not true for all law courses in NSW ie at USYD there are only class tests and final exams for TORTS, so i imagine that could make for a less stimulating in-class atmosphere (and pander towards the commerce / law types who are always very silent )

2) Law is never black and white, there are many grey areas and can be quite abstract/innovative esp. in 'human rights' and even 'terra nullius'. My lecturer commented that this is a problem with many commerce students (there's a lot of them at UNSW, and at most unis these days) as they always just want a textbook answer which many times is impossible. English needless to say, sets one up well to accept relativity (ie creativity) in life.

3) The vocabulary, lexical sets, and diction learnt in english (Austenian / nineteenth century english anyone?) are very useful when dissecting Lord Denning's judgments <3 or even HCA cases in general. Also i attribute my great sense of humour to english, where i was able to quote from a Dickens' novel to disarm one of the arguments of my opposite number in a moot (a bit hyperbolic, but it did generate raucous laughter amongst the Judges - it was from Oliver Twist and was quite absurd, it was a 'you-had-to-be-there' moment).

I should probably post this again in the law / 2008 HSC forums for prospective students i think Such a cogent argument, which i daresay the Muses will inspire within you should you study B Arts (English)

 

[melonkitten]

Prejudice much? How are you to know that 09ers have any idea in regards to this issue or not?

And what I am saying on this forum are all known as common sense. All I am doing here is to recite all those common sense all out. Even the Year 10 kids would be able to tell that EX2 AND MX2 both require a intensive amount of work.

stupid 09'er

no idea whatsoever

 

[bored of sc]

I respect people who can create such amazing, original and interesting works from scratch more than those with outstanding mathematical ability. But still, I chose neither due to the subjectivity of the topic.

 

[5233andy]

If I had to do EE2, I'd probably end up writing a philosophical essay about blah.

Kudos to those who are succeeding in either EE2, ME2 or both

Either way, it comes down to the desires of the individual and whether they're motivated to spent most of their time working on either one of the subjects.

 

[x.Exhaust.x]

I respect people who can create such amazing, original and interesting works from scratch more than those with outstanding mathematical ability. But still, I chose neither due to the subjectivity of the topic.

Qft.

 

[Js^-1]

Whilst the question is, Which is more prestigious?, it should be obvious that no-one can fundamentally prove that one is more prestigious over the other. The beauty of this poll is that it stimulated this argument, and the 8 pages of (mostly well constructed) arguments shows it. I for one, think they are equally prestigious, but obviously in different areas and to different people. I disagree with the people who say that EE2 is a breeze, and anyone can do it, without putting in any hard work. But I also disagree with those who say that anyone can ME2, as long as they put in work. ME2 requires creativity, and a flair and love for/of elegance, just as EE2 does. Note that the majority of posters on this forum do either one of the subjects, myself included. Maybe the same poll targeted at a different audience, perhaps the people who decide entrance to university, might give us a different result on the poll. Just remember who is taking part in the poll before you quote its results as proof.

 

[marcquelle]

may i say that they are both prestigous as are all ext courses.

I like to say that i'm going to be a EE2 come next term. YAY!

 

[omniscience]

may i say that they are both prestigous as are all ext courses.

I like to say that i'm going to be a EE2 come next term. YAY!

You mean ESL?

On the topic:

It is a highly subjective topic. Therefore, the responses are expected to be biased and subjective. On this topic, we really cannot expect a decent debate.

 

[miche11e]

woah... contraversy much?
(and yes i know i may have spelt it wrong - im only doing advanced lol)

As someone who does MX2, you may think my views are bias, but ill try to keep it out as much as possible...

Being closely knit with the EE2 girls (there are 5 of us in both classes), i understand the degree of difficulty that EE2 has to an extent. In my opinion (from what my friends have told me) EE2 for SOME people is a lot like SDD in that you can write up something before planning it or thinking about all of its different aspects and then come back after you've finished it and make up your planning process and concepts so that it seems like you originally had those ideas and wrote them in instead of writing then going back to find something.

I know for some people it is a truly creative process, just as for some people in MX2 it is a truly intellectual process, but there are those few in each subject that can get through it on BSing (even though it is very difficult to BS in MX2) which ruin it for the rest.

MX2 is not, as some people have suggested, just built up knowledge, nor is it something that you can just rely on memorizing to pull you through. There are some people in my MX1 class that everyone thought were mathematical geniuses until we got to year 11 and 12 and realised that they were just memorizing the proccesses. Of course, if you were one of those people, you could still go quite far in MX2, but you need more than that. You need to be able to think ahead of the question to see what kind of question it is and see links that you can make between topics and different methods. It's not an easy thing to explain and you might all be going "wahhhh...??" but MX2 isn't the same as MX1 or mathematics, the same way EE2 isn't the same as the other english courses.

I put down MX2 before reading this discussion, but after thinking it through, i really don't think you can compare them. As someone pointed out, it's logic vs creativity. It may be easier to get higher marks in EE2, but i wouldn't know. I think people go "woah" more when you say you do MX2, but only because english is something everyone has to do and the EE2 course may be understated...

I have no idea

 

[miche11e]

Whilst the question is, Which is more prestigious?, it should be obvious that no-one can fundamentally prove that one is more prestigious over the other. The beauty of this poll is that it stimulated this argument, and the 8 pages of (mostly well constructed) arguments shows it. I for one, think they are equally prestigious, but obviously in different areas and to different people. I disagree with the people who say that EE2 is a breeze, and anyone can do it, without putting in any hard work. But I also disagree with those who say that anyone can ME2, as long as they put in work. ME2 requires creativity, and a flair and love for/of elegance, just as EE2 does. Note that the majority of posters on this forum do either one of the subjects, myself included. Maybe the same poll targeted at a different audience, perhaps the people who decide entrance to university, might give us a different result on the poll. Just remember who is taking part in the poll before you quote its results as proof.

and plus i agree with everything you just said - you explained the MX2 flair thing way better than me

 

[omniscience]

woah... contraversy much?
(and yes i know i may have spelt it wrong - im only doing advanced lol)

As someone who does MX2, you may think my views are bias, but ill try to keep it out as much as possible...

Being closely knit with the EE2 girls (there are 5 of us in both classes), i understand the degree of difficulty that EE2 has to an extent. In my opinion (from what my friends have told me) EE2 for SOME people is a lot like SDD in that you can write up something before planning it or thinking about all of its different aspects and then come back after you've finished it and make up your planning process and concepts so that it seems like you originally had those ideas and wrote them in instead of writing then going back to find something.

I know for some people it is a truly creative process, just as for some people in MX2 it is a truly intellectual process, but there are those few in each subject that can get through it on BSing (even though it is very difficult to BS in MX2) which ruin it for the rest.

MX2 is not, as some people have suggested, just built up knowledge, nor is it something that you can just rely on memorizing to pull you through. There are some people in my MX1 class that everyone thought were mathematical geniuses until we got to year 11 and 12 and realised that they were just memorizing the proccesses. Of course, if you were one of those people, you could still go quite far in MX2, but you need more than that. You need to be able to think ahead of the question to see what kind of question it is and see links that you can make between topics and different methods. It's not an easy thing to explain and you might all be going "wahhhh...??" but MX2 isn't the same as MX1 or mathematics, the same way EE2 isn't the same as the other english courses.

I put down MX2 before reading this discussion, but after thinking it through, i really don't think you can compare them. As someone pointed out, it's logic vs creativity. It may be easier to get higher marks in EE2, but i wouldn't know. I think people go "woah" more when you say you do MX2, but only because english is something everyone has to do and the EE2 course may be understated...

I have no idea

Controversy* for you information.

I don't do MX2 but I do MX1. From my own knowledge, the idea of "logic" does not specifically apply to MX1. The idea of "logic" is somewhat promoted by all subjects as you have to present logical answers in all subjects. Even your English essay must provide logical answer backed up by evidences even though creativity comes into the prominent role in doing so.

 

[miche11e]

mmm i guess i agree with that too... well, i still think you can't compare them because what each subject requires of the students is very different. I think that this discussion has turned into "which is more demanding?" rather than which is more prestigious...

P.S. thanks for the correction - ill go write it out 10 times

 

[aeiss]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

i know this kid in my grade who did mx2 when he was in yr 10. he came 8th in the state. he's a beast.

however. i don't think that would occur with ex2. development of ideas and such.

edit: he did it in year 9

 

[Harkaraj]

Maths ext 2 all the way

 

[Harkaraj]

Re: Which subject is more "prestigious" - English Extension 2 or Mathematics Extensio

i know this kid in my grade who did mx2 when he was in yr 10. he came 8th in the state. he's a beast.

however. i don't think that would occur with ex2. development of ideas and such.

edit: he did it in year 9

shit, what a genius, im struggling in year 12 with mx2