WILL ext1 4UC be scaled >ext1 3UA THIS year??(mths) (1 Viewer)

[macca202]

last year an hsc mark (using lazarus) in EXT 1, of 89, if you were a 4 unit student, scaled up to 90!!!!. But if u were a 3 unit student sitting the same exam an hsc mark of 89 scaled down to 84!!!
I'm asking this because i really want this unfair advantage. Its strange how they differ, because it shows that the method of scalin, which see's how smart the candidates are by looking at other subjects they do, and how well they go.

And also, a 4 unit student stidies more for the test cos its worth 2 units for us, so that gives us an even bigger advantage. Does any one know????
89=90 89=84
oh by the way, im talking MATHS here.
MATHS MATHS MATHS

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by macca202
last year an hsc mark (using lazarus) in EXT 1, of 89, if you were a 4 unit student, scaled up to 90!!!!. But if u were a 3 unit student sitting the same exam an hsc mark of 89 scaled down to 84!!!
I'm asking this because i really want this unfair advantage. Its strange how they differ, because it shows that the method of scalin, which see's how smart the candidates are by looking at other subjects they do, and how well they go.

It only occurred because the relativities between the 3u students and 4u students on the 3u paper were quite distorted - the paper was geared much more towards 4u students, and so they were significantly ahead in terms of raw marks. And as 3u and 4u students are scaled as separate groups, it resulted in a much higher scaled mean for 4u students on the 3u paper. If you want an authoritative answer, Professor George Cooney, Chair of the Technical Committee on Scaling, has said it won't be happening again this year.

 

[McLake]

So, Laz, we (4U students) ARE scaled seprately?

Doesn't that mean we will be scled better, because we will do better on the 3U exam?

 

[Lazarus]

You're scaled separately, but from what I understand the algorithm has been modified so that the same raw mark on the 3u paper will produce the same scaled mark for both 3u and 4u students.

 

[macca202]

no Mclake, we will get better hsc marks which will be scaled the same. the scaling for this years ext1 pper will benefit from the smartnes of the combination of 3u and 4u candidtates!!!!!! i tink

 

[McLake]

Originally posted by Lazarus
You're scaled separately, but from what I understand the algorithm has been modified so that the same raw mark on the 3u paper will produce the same scaled mark for both 3u and 4u students.

So why seprate, surley 4U will get SOME advantage (even if not as high as last year) ?

EDIT: What macca202 said, don't we benifit as us being smart students and all ...

 

[Lazarus]

Originally posted by McLake
So why seprate, surley 4U will get SOME advantage (even if not as high as last year) ?

EDIT: What macca202 said, don't we benifit as us being smart students and all ...

The groups are scaled separately because the Extension 1 component is worth 2 units for Ext 2 students and only 1 unit for Ext 1 students. Why they don't simply scale them together and double the mark for Ext 2 units is beyond me - I've even asked a member of the Technical Committee on Scaling the same question, and he didn't know. I suspect it's just something they've 'always done' and because very few people can actually be bothered to find out how the system works, it hasn't been question since 1986 or whenever the TCoS took over the scaling process.

So, you're still scaled as separate groups, which will prevent the 4u-tendency-to-do-well-in-other-courses from upping the scaling for the 3u course. I might ask about that, actually. Seems odd.

Edit: It seemed odd because it was wrong. See my next post.

 

[macca202]

i agessees wit wat laz alewaways assays , it wont maek MUCH of of diidfference, but ....ahhh lost some btainsecceellsss tonight,

ah yeah with us counting ext1 as 2 whole units as appoose to 3 unit students having i tt counted as one unit ,, doesent thsataat meean that us 4 guys woulsld studdy MORE 4 it and hence we would expecrted to get hifger marks and so we have no reason to benefit more from the 3 guys as they are already disadvanrataged from not wanting to study as much!!!! for me it workds the oppsite for how 3 students get sdsadveantaged when they shouldnt have to bother as much for jsust one unit.

 

[Lazarus]

OK, I checked it out, the Extension 1 and Extension 2 candidates are going to be combined and scaled as a single group from this year onwards (for the Ext 1 paper).

 

[McLake]

Originally posted by Lazarus
OK, I checked it out, the Extension 1 and Extension 2 candidates are going to be combined and scaled as a single group from this year onwards (for the Ext 1 paper).

So what does that mean for "we look at your other subjects" bit. Are they going to look at the 4U students preformance and the 3U students preformance at the same time?

Mighten they differ quite a bit (especially in a mathsy subject such as phyiscs) ?

 

[Lazarus]

Yes, they'll look at them all at the same time and average it out (essentially).

Theoretically, what the scaled mean would have been for the combined candidature last year could be approximated by averaging the Ext1 3UA mean with the Ext1 4UC mean which would give 41.3. This isn't exact, and could be way off, depending on the distributions, but it seems to indicate that Maths Ext 1 will likely be among the top scaled courses this year.

 

[McLake]

Thanks, Laz.

I'll stop fretting about the scaling now, and just see what happens ...

 

[Doylie]

Hey Laz, do you know what last years raw mean was amongst 3UA candidates? Someone told me it was roughly 50%?

 

[Minai]

I'll b happy if 3U scales really well...im counting on good scaling to save me in that subject (I was always crap at maths)
Even if 3U and 4U students get scaled on the same ..scale, 4U students will end up getting better marks anyway, since they are smarter, so it shouldnt really make a difference

 

[Lazarus]

Unfortunately, the statistical report relating to raw marks wasn't produced for the 2001 HSC (even though reports were released for years prior to that), so no-one knows anything.

 

[Doylie]

oh that uber-sucks...