Your rights at uni rally (2 Viewers)

[Silver And Cold]

Anyone go? I thought about it but then slept in

I see 23 people were arrested. Good to hear :mad1:

 

[iamsickofyear12]

I think it's pretty funny that they were demanding an increase in youth allowance because they are so poor, but they were also demanding to throw away a couple hundred dollars by giving it to a student union.

 

[Silver And Cold]

I think it's pretty funny that they were demanding an increase in youth allowance because they are so poor, but they were also demanding to throw away a couple hundred dollars by giving it to a student union.

throwing away money?

at least by giving money to the union, you get things out of it (i.e - almost every single good service at uni), by paying higher hecs fees, do we get a better education? i'm pretty sure that's a no.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

throwing away money?

at least by giving money to the union, you get things out of it (i.e - almost every single good service at uni), by paying higher hecs fees, do we get a better education? i'm pretty sure that's a no.

That's right. You get things out of it. But by the end of this session I will have only benefited by about $20, and by the end of the year probably less than $50. I paid a lot more than $50.

 

[Logistics]

LOL

Let them protest when they have nothing better to do, not like it will make any difference lmao.

The government will do what works for them, not your average Joe.

now back to my assignment.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

that is because you didn't take full advantage of the options available to you, and it encourages people to get more invovled in campus life and get more out of uni than just a degree, as its about much more than that

All the societies are shit, I can't drink at uni because the only way home is to drive, I am not gay, or muslim, or christian, and I don't have a kid that needs childcare.

What am I meant to do... Should I get drunk at the unibar and drive home, probably crash my car, get a girl pregnant, become gay, take up a religion I don't believe in and join some club I am not interested in at all just so I can take full advantage of all the options available to me?

I'm sick of this 'uni is about more than a degree' bullshit. I don't see how going to the unibar is any different from going to another bar somewhere else with people from uni. Or joining a social club or sporting team somewhere else, one that you are actually interested in.

 

[Silver And Cold]

What am I meant to do... Should I get drunk at the unibar and drive home, probably crash my car, get a girl pregnant, become gay, take up a religion I don't believe in and join some club I am not interested in at all just so I can take full advantage of all the options available to me?

it sounds like the perfect solution to me

oh and the only way home is to drive? where the hell do you live? cuz i'm pretty sure the public transport system stretches pretty far out i live in nowhere and i manage to get home without driving

 

[withoutaface]

by paying higher hecs fees, do we get a better education? i'm pretty sure that's a no.

So you believe that the person who drives your bus home every day on a fairly modest salary should fund, through their taxes, your degree so you can earn 40K+ starting salary on graduation? The extra income potential created through university vastly exceeds any amount of HECS you'll ever have to pay.

having said that - im against vsu. im also against dickehads going out there protesting, acting like idiots and getting arrested. they're not martyr's like they seem to think of themselve's as, they're idiots

i also respect that some poelpe dont want to get invovled in the social side of uni/pay $200 for it if they're not going to use the numerous services available to them.

Contradiction. You can't be for the people not paying their money but against VSU.

its a complex issue and there's no right or wrong, but that's where i stand on it.

Complex? No right or wrong? Let me lay this out for you: you are stealing students money to fund things which they don't wish to fund. Theft is almost objectively wrong, unless you don't believe in property rights. Do you believe in property rights, matty?

The rally was awesome. I made page 2 of the herald.

 

[Mongke]

So you believe that the person who drives your bus home every day on a fairly modest salary should fund, through their taxes, your degree so you can earn 40K+ starting salary on graduation? The extra income potential created through university vastly exceeds any amount of HECS you'll ever have to pay.

i think the governtment should pay, simple as that. ill pay for everything else, you stop going to stupid wars and pay for my degree and we have a deal.

 

[withoutaface]

i think the governtment should pay, simple as that. ill pay for everything else, you stop going to stupid wars and pay for my degree and we have a deal.

Why should the taxpayers fund your degree? You can't just make a statement without justification.

 

[Mongke]

Why should the taxpayers fund your degree? You can't just make a statement without justification.

well, they do. im soon to be one of them. the taxy payers that is.

make my uni cheap, dont go to war with someone who doesnt know where Australia is, rather put more energy and money into unis and schools. its silly, a country as rich as this and we have to pay such high fees, come on! this isnt the US!! i demand more from Howard, which is why im voting of the Fishing Party

 

[iamsickofyear12]

it sounds like the perfect solution to me

oh and the only way home is to drive? where the hell do you live? cuz i'm pretty sure the public transport system stretches pretty far out i live in nowhere and i manage to get home without driving

During the day I can get home using public transport it just takes two or three times as long. But at night it stops in my area.

 

[withoutaface]

well, they do. im soon to be one of them. the taxy payers that is.

make my uni cheap, dont go to war with someone who doesnt know where Australia is, rather put more energy and money into unis and schools. its silly, a country as rich as this and we have to pay such high fees, come on! this isnt the US!! i demand more from Howard, which is why im voting of the Fishing Party

1. I don't support the invasion of Iraq.
2. Why should they put energy into university when the market can do it for them?
3. You know why rich countries are rich? Because people have incentives to work. Why do people have incentives to work? Low taxes and relatively free markets.

 

[super katie]

im also against dickehads going out there protesting, acting like idiots and getting arrested. they're not martyr's like they seem to think of themselve's as, they're idiots

ok so I was at the rally... which was relatively tame. A small section of people on the rally decided to sit down in railway square which probably wasnt the best idea in the world, but no they were not acting as martyrs, they werent idiots, dont make such offensive generalisations.

and i'd just like to say that there is no way they can justify the level of police force present at the rally, that was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[bshoc]

So you believe that the person who drives your bus home every day on a fairly modest salary should fund, through their taxes, your degree so you can earn 40K+ starting salary on graduation? The extra income potential created through university vastly exceeds any amount of HECS you'll ever have to pay.

I think alot of people do, becuase when this bus driver was our age he/she probably had the opportunity to go to uni via school marks - FOR FREE - there is no genuine corellation between tax and a second rate job - and the tax the busdriver pays is pennies compared to (what I hope) people like John Howard, who earn $200000+ p/a today do, who also got though uni for free. In effect I'm paying now becuase people like Johnny have a fetish for the free market - in other words pulling society's support from under itself - after they have made it to financial and professional safety ofcourse.

Complex? No right or wrong? Let me lay this out for you: you are stealing students money to fund things which they don't wish to fund. Theft is almost objectively wrong, unless you don't believe in property rights. Do you believe in property rights, matty?

Nobody believes in property rights, otherwise the government would not be taxing my money (property) etc - which ofcourse would be bad because private security would be expensive - Something like VSU seems meager in comparison. Its called the common good, and if you dont like it, why are you at uni?

 

[bshoc]

2. Why should they put energy into university when the market can do it for them?

Becuase education in the free market revolves around giving you a title rather than educating you - if monetary value is what you seek then they should simply price degrees and sell them in a shopfront along with a few textbooks - there is no point in getting educated becuase somebody wants your money, as soon as you turn uni into a business you can pronounce education dead. Its happening somewhat already if you notice, especially along with all the asian law/med people.

3. You know why rich countries are rich? Because people have incentives to work. Why do people have incentives to work? Low taxes and relatively free markets.

Nope western countires are rich becuase we have leverage over the poorer countries (which I dont oppose btw. I'm just stating the facts) - be it military, historical, diplomatic, resource etc. If we were all living in a free market we'd all have to learn to accept roughly a third of the salary we're getting now (to balance out the raise in the third world). Lesson: the free market may be the most efficient economic system - but for the people living in the western world, its by far the worst system to preach.

 

[withoutaface]

I think alot of people do, becuase when this bus driver was our age he/she probably had the opportunity to go to uni via school marks - FOR FREE

You have an opportunity to buy a chocolate bar from a shop on the way home. If you choose not to, then on the way home someone mugs you and takes the cost of the chocolate bar, would you be peeved?

there is no genuine corellation between tax and a second rate job

The point is that they still pay tax, and this is bad on a principled basis, and it's also important to remember that every dollar tax they pay means more to them than every dollar the rich pay.

and the tax the busdriver pays is pennies compared to (what I hope) people like John Howard, who earn $200000+ p/a today do, who also got though uni for free.

Relevance?

In effect I'm paying now becuase people like Johnny have a fetish for the free market - in other words pulling society's support from under itself - after they have made it to financial and professional safety ofcourse.

Ad homs do not constitute a valid argument.

Nobody believes in property rights, otherwise the government would not be taxing my money (property) etc - which ofcourse would be bad because private security would be expensive - Something like VSU seems meager in comparison. Its called the common good, and if you dont like it, why are you at uni?

Tax is also theft. I'm at university because I want a better job, more knowledge and more money.

 

[withoutaface]

Becuase education in the free market revolves around giving you a title rather than educating you - if monetary value is what you seek then they should simply price degrees and sell them in a shopfront along with a few textbooks - there is no point in getting educated becuase somebody wants your money, as soon as you turn uni into a business you can pronounce education dead. Its happening somewhat already if you notice, especially along with all the asian law/med people.

If degrees were sold in shop fronts then such degrees would be useless as qualifications for a job, because no business would accept them.

Nope western countires are rich becuase we have leverage over the poorer countries (which I dont oppose btw. I'm just stating the facts) - be it military, historical, diplomatic, resource etc. If we were all living in a free market we'd all have to learn to accept roughly a third of the salary we're getting now (to balance out the raise in the third world).

If the third world were living under small governments, they would develop their own infrastructure, and their wages would become equal to what our wages are now.

Lesson: the free market may be the most efficient economic system - but for the people living in the western world, its by far the worst system to preach.

Kguy.

 

[bshoc]

If degrees were sold in shop fronts then such degrees would be useless as qualifications for a job, because no business would accept them.

Why? If all universities were run like businesses employers would have to accept them - what would be the alternative? A university that gives its students an education but makes losses? Thats un-ethical in terms of business.

If the third world were living under small governments, they would develop their own infrastructure, and their wages would become equal to what our wages are now.

I think that was tried under Pinochet already

Between 1973 and 1989, a government team of economists trained at the University of Chicago dismantled or decentralized the Chilean state as far as was humanly possible. Their program included privatizing welfare and social programs, deregulating the market, liberalizing trade, rolling back trade unions, and rewriting its constitution and laws... Chile's economy became more unstable than any other in Latin America... growth during this 16-year period was one of the slowest of any Latin American country. Worse, income inequality grew severe. The majority of workers actually earned less in 1989 than in 1973 (after adjusting for inflation), while the incomes of the rich skyrocketed. In the absence of market regulations, Chile also became one of the most polluted countries in Latin America.

F.A.R.C.E

 

[withoutaface]

What about this - the guy who took away your right to essentially a free chocoloate bar spent his whole life munching down on them - in a way using taxes to pay for universities was simply a delayed burden since most uni grads are going to pay the higher tax brakets anyway. Taking that away is biggest case of theft ever, making you example above meaningless.

Delayed burden? What do you think HECS is?

I dont care, pay tax like everyone else or get out of the country, bus drivers get decent wages anyway.

Oh, so criticism of the government for a vile practice means that I should move to somewhere where the government does the exact same thing? Good logic you got there.

He got through for free and earns a huge income, making what you said sort of irrelevant.

Please, please, please do my a favour and read this. Your argument is fallacious because you're attacking irrelevant facts about him, rather than analysing the validity of his argument.

facts do though

Not when they're irrelevant.
[qote]Taking your approach, you certainly value the first and third alot more than the second - western society emphasises that the most important as the second, and thats partly why western society lives in relative splendor while people in countries like China and India live in sh*t, there's a lesson to be learned here.[/QUOTE]
People in India and China live in poverty because their governments are socialist criminals.