What a load of BS, I don't believe that for a second.
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[Serious] Law students, do you have a life? (2 Viewers)
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ninjapuppet
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I finished law semester 2006, and here were the results from my year.
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/lpab/ll_lpab.nsf/vwFiles/Pass%20Fail%20stats%20Sept%202006.pdf/$file/Pass%20Fail%20stats%20Sept%202006.pdf
Average of 11.57% students got a pass with distinctions (PD) overall. note contracts vs conflict of laws.
Regarding the original question:
Grades are very important in law due to the immense competition early in your career. However, in first year I volunteered at McClellands lawyers as a paralegal, and saw 20+ new grads applying for 3 jobs, all generally of the D/HD calibre.
The boss told me that if there are 2 students to choose from, he would choose the one that showed evidence of studying most efficiently, to handle work pressure. ie,
student 1 gets D average, does heaps of activities outside study, sports, interacting with society, knitting groups, paralegal work blah blah blah,
student 2 - HD average nerd with no life experiences. spends all her time studying studying studying, focussing on grades, forgetting everything else.
who do you think would be the better candidate?
If you are straight from yr 12 with no outside activities, do some no-name/online law degree, scrape by a pass throughout: I suggest you take up some hobbies and interact more with society to make up for the shortfall.
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/lpab/ll_lpab.nsf/vwFiles/Pass%20Fail%20stats%20Sept%202006.pdf/$file/Pass%20Fail%20stats%20Sept%202006.pdf
Average of 11.57% students got a pass with distinctions (PD) overall. note contracts vs conflict of laws.
Regarding the original question:
Grades are very important in law due to the immense competition early in your career. However, in first year I volunteered at McClellands lawyers as a paralegal, and saw 20+ new grads applying for 3 jobs, all generally of the D/HD calibre.
The boss told me that if there are 2 students to choose from, he would choose the one that showed evidence of studying most efficiently, to handle work pressure. ie,
student 1 gets D average, does heaps of activities outside study, sports, interacting with society, knitting groups, paralegal work blah blah blah,
student 2 - HD average nerd with no life experiences. spends all her time studying studying studying, focussing on grades, forgetting everything else.
who do you think would be the better candidate?
If you are straight from yr 12 with no outside activities, do some no-name/online law degree, scrape by a pass throughout: I suggest you take up some hobbies and interact more with society to make up for the shortfall.
Last edited:
dog on heat
check it out uh uh uh uh
the typical law student
What does student 2 do in her holidays, though?
neo o
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I suppose linked SULS documents with statements by the faculty aren't good enough for you? Just keep telling yourself that your credit average is good.
The documents say the MAX is 40%.
So he is correct in not believing them.
neo o
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The raw statistics are provided, and are higher. Read more than the first paragraph next time. The only relevant criticism is that the old policy isn't applicable this semester, but I've already said as much earlier.
link
I'm a first year law student and I like to think that I have a life. I spent a lot of time going out early on in the semester (too much of a laid back appraoch lol) and wished that I spent more time studying but I'm still sitting on high C's. I'm planning to spend some more time studying next semester but have no doubt that I will still have time to do other things. I guess it just depends on how well you manage your time and what kind of grades you want. It's always good to have balance though.
First semester at uni was quiet overwhelming but you get used to it after you settle in. I have about 12 contact hours per week which I spread out over 4 days, however, next semester I will only be at uni 2 days per week. You do need to do a fair bit of reading but most of the time I don't read all my prescribed cases as I should. It has been stressful at times but that's just with any study you do really.
First semester at uni was quiet overwhelming but you get used to it after you settle in. I have about 12 contact hours per week which I spread out over 4 days, however, next semester I will only be at uni 2 days per week. You do need to do a fair bit of reading but most of the time I don't read all my prescribed cases as I should. It has been stressful at times but that's just with any study you do really.
xxJTxx
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oh just thought i should add my two cents.
uni is meant to be a 'mind opening' opportunity..your meant to explore and learn about yourself. it's not simply about the course content and studying.
im at usyd atm...doing com/law. yes i know people who spend all their time studying, are ALWAYS on top of their notes and probably know all the content back to front before an exam. these are generally the people who are getting the hd avgs.
on the other hand, you have to people who turn up to all their classes, do the required work when they have chance (or stop doing it when assessments come around..then fall behind) and manage to skim by on a high credit avg.
then you've got the final category, which are those people who don't bother turning up, have no idea what's going on, don't study...these people are the ones who will probably fail.
contrary to popular belief..uni isnt THAT hard to pass. for most of your units, you will come to finals time (yes..im on bored of studies, procrastinating when it's finals time..can you fit me into one of the aforementioned categories of students? haha) with about 50% of your assessment already completed..meaning if your on a credit avg..you'd probably only need say another 20 - 25 marks outta your 50% final to pass overall..by hsc standards, just passing a final exam is not hard to achieve.
however, this would render you a pass student.
now, believe me, you don't want to be a pass student. why? the vast majority are credit students, and they arent even good enough..cause then you have the d students and hd students.
i myself and resigned to the fact that i will be part of the majority, a credit student. i am hoping in my later years, that i will have some brief shining moments where i can get a d or a hd in a unit or two.
don't believe the lies. credit students have lives. and you should have a life. like i said, uni isnt just about the study..there is so much more to it.
oh and about the 40% of students getting d/hd..what bs..honestly, that's a maximum. they actually read your work..if it's in a d/hd range, they'll give to you...if it's not, they wont simply try and fill the quota and bump you up from a credit to d just for the sake of it!
anyway. this rant is over, and i should get back to studying..or ill see myself failing contracts (which is CLOSED book at usyd..such a friggen pain in the ass.
uni is meant to be a 'mind opening' opportunity..your meant to explore and learn about yourself. it's not simply about the course content and studying.
im at usyd atm...doing com/law. yes i know people who spend all their time studying, are ALWAYS on top of their notes and probably know all the content back to front before an exam. these are generally the people who are getting the hd avgs.
on the other hand, you have to people who turn up to all their classes, do the required work when they have chance (or stop doing it when assessments come around..then fall behind) and manage to skim by on a high credit avg.
then you've got the final category, which are those people who don't bother turning up, have no idea what's going on, don't study...these people are the ones who will probably fail.
contrary to popular belief..uni isnt THAT hard to pass. for most of your units, you will come to finals time (yes..im on bored of studies, procrastinating when it's finals time..can you fit me into one of the aforementioned categories of students? haha) with about 50% of your assessment already completed..meaning if your on a credit avg..you'd probably only need say another 20 - 25 marks outta your 50% final to pass overall..by hsc standards, just passing a final exam is not hard to achieve.
however, this would render you a pass student.
now, believe me, you don't want to be a pass student. why? the vast majority are credit students, and they arent even good enough..cause then you have the d students and hd students.
i myself and resigned to the fact that i will be part of the majority, a credit student. i am hoping in my later years, that i will have some brief shining moments where i can get a d or a hd in a unit or two.
don't believe the lies. credit students have lives. and you should have a life. like i said, uni isnt just about the study..there is so much more to it.
oh and about the 40% of students getting d/hd..what bs..honestly, that's a maximum. they actually read your work..if it's in a d/hd range, they'll give to you...if it's not, they wont simply try and fill the quota and bump you up from a credit to d just for the sake of it!
anyway. this rant is over, and i should get back to studying..or ill see myself failing contracts (which is CLOSED book at usyd..such a friggen pain in the ass.
neo o
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You haven't read it? Then what the hell are you basing your argument on. Scroll back two pages and open it for yourself, it's linked to earlier in the thread.
chewy123
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Nah law students party a lot, a least in unsw, usually because they are smart to begin with (i m exception).
Lawyers on the other hand is a whole different story, from what I hear lawyers typically work 60-80 hrs/week, if not more. 40% depression rate, surely having no life (or a crap life) have something to do with it.
Lawyers on the other hand is a whole different story, from what I hear lawyers typically work 60-80 hrs/week, if not more. 40% depression rate, surely having no life (or a crap life) have something to do with it.
I read it.
It had 2007 statistics. It has core subjects with less than 40% D+HD.
Furthermore it said the new policy said the maximum would be set at 40%.
as opposed to the earlier guideline which was maximum "80% total Distinctions and High Distinctions"
cannibal.horse
Member
This scares the shit out of me tbh.
I'm already planning to be a divorced alcoholic with 50-60 hours, at 80 I'm not even gonna have time for that!
Omnidragon
Devil
The problem about law is not uni - that's all fine. It's that the actual industry is very overrated and this sets high expectations for new lawyers, which leads to depression when they realise it isn't half of what it's made out to be. Everyone thinks lawyers rake it in and must be able to drive porsches by 30 years old.
Reality is most lawyers, corporate ones included, are like any other white collar person out there; struggling to buy a house in a very very ordinary suburb, paying 30% of their salary toawards rent and working late hours sometimes.
A lot of people who get into law school were high achievers in high school with high hopes (how many of you got 99 UAI +?). The world is your oyster as they say it. But when you start your job, you're back to Square 1 - your pay is not much bigger and perhaps even lesser than your 'not-so-smart' accountant or engineer friend that you've always snobbed off for not being able to get a UAI over 90. The work you do can barely be described as interesting. If you're in litigation, for example, you spend a lot of time sorting documents and doing discovery. The real saving grace is that 10 min glory when you sit down with your parent's friends to gloat about this amazing legal battle you were involved in - but you didn't tell them your role was pushing trollies from the court to counsel's office or numbering pages of evidence you discovered from the opponent.
Don't get me wrong though - I'm in no way bitter about it. I think to do law, you really need to enjoy it. But if you're going in with the hope of rolling in cash, you're in the wrong place and will probably set yourself up for disappointment. I've got some friends who are, however, very into the whole law thing and they love their mooting, debating and analysing legal points. Those people will survive the mundane first 10-15 years and reap the benefits later on. You need to ask yourself whether you're one of these people.
Reality is most lawyers, corporate ones included, are like any other white collar person out there; struggling to buy a house in a very very ordinary suburb, paying 30% of their salary toawards rent and working late hours sometimes.
A lot of people who get into law school were high achievers in high school with high hopes (how many of you got 99 UAI +?). The world is your oyster as they say it. But when you start your job, you're back to Square 1 - your pay is not much bigger and perhaps even lesser than your 'not-so-smart' accountant or engineer friend that you've always snobbed off for not being able to get a UAI over 90. The work you do can barely be described as interesting. If you're in litigation, for example, you spend a lot of time sorting documents and doing discovery. The real saving grace is that 10 min glory when you sit down with your parent's friends to gloat about this amazing legal battle you were involved in - but you didn't tell them your role was pushing trollies from the court to counsel's office or numbering pages of evidence you discovered from the opponent.
Don't get me wrong though - I'm in no way bitter about it. I think to do law, you really need to enjoy it. But if you're going in with the hope of rolling in cash, you're in the wrong place and will probably set yourself up for disappointment. I've got some friends who are, however, very into the whole law thing and they love their mooting, debating and analysing legal points. Those people will survive the mundane first 10-15 years and reap the benefits later on. You need to ask yourself whether you're one of these people.
twistedtigers
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How many hours you want to work depends greatly on the tier you're employed by. If you're happy to go bottom tier (which is less money), the solicitors at the firms I've worked at start at 8.30 and are gone by 5.00. Down side is that there is a lot of pressure to be active in the community, which is a bit of a drag.