Some are born gay, some achieve gayness, and some have gayness thrust upon them (3 Viewers)

[*TRUE*]

Iron, what do you think of some LSD factions' move to chemically castrate the queer members of their congregation?

What the hell?

 

[yoddle]

You fit in just fine. You're not a sinner. You don't need to redeem yourself, or more accurately, there is nothing to redeem. End of discussion.

I was being sarcastic. I know fully well I don't have to redeem myself of anything.

 

[Iron]

But who gets to decide if the Pope has done wrong? I'm genuinely interested in the pecking order of the Vatican.


.

The Council of Bishops. There has always been tension between their authority and the Pope's. The Pope is chosen from amongst them and all major decisions are undertaken with very close collaboration with them

 

[Iron]

But doesn't he make us? So isn't homosexuality something created by God? If he is responsible for every minute detail? So who are you to question the work of God eh?

Sin is not the work of God. He merely provides us with the tools to fight it and no one is tested beyond his strength.

 

[katie tully]

God had to create sin, otherwise where did it come from?

 

[Iron]

Afawk, rebellious angels after >power in a somehow flawed universe.
God created a new heaven and will create a new earth to address this. Christ has conquered death and Satan's fate is sealed

 

[Tully B.]

The Council of Bishops. There has always been tension between their authority and the Pope's. The Pope is chosen from amongst them and all major decisions are undertaken with very close collaboration with them

But if it's the Council of Bishops who decide who gets to be Pope, how can one be sure that God approves of said Pope. It just seems like there are so many places where humans could interfere, making the process a whole lot less "Godly".

God had to create sin, otherwise where did it come from?

You see, katie, Eve ate some apple. Then, Adam ate some apple. They did this with the full knowledge that God did not want them to eat some apple. Therefore, it's our fault for having apple in the world, because we embraced the apple, not God's, because he put the apple there in the first place.

 

[Iron]

But if it's the Council of Bishops who decide who gets to be Pope, how can one be sure that God approves of said Pope. It just seems like there are so many places where humans could interfere, making the process a whole lot less "Godly".
.

Priests, Bishops and religious are ordained into the Church. They take very serious vows which set them apart from other men in closeness to God and in what God expects of them re his flock. I dont think that we insist that any Pope is chosen by God, though we may believe this ourselves. The point is that these are Holy men and they make a simple democratic decision as to who amongst themselves would best lead Christ's Church on earth; who can best articulate the issues of the day and inject them with a relevant and energising Christian message etc. Talent and effectivness may well vary from one Pope to the next

 

[Choklit Milk]

Where to start....

Okay this is just meant to be an insight of what it is like for someone like me, something to think about before others post their thoughts (if they haven't had their own such experience).

This would be the fourth time I have told someone this; I'm gay.

But here's there kicker: I don't even know if that's true!

For about two years now I have found myself sexually attracted towards men, and I am perfectly okay with that and I know all my friends and family would be okay with it (the three that I have told so far have been okay with it). There would be very little change in my life if I were to go out to everyone right now and tell them that I am gay and proud of it.

But when the psychologist within me looks at it I become frightened. Similar to a previous poster, my life is mainly dominated by females; my mother and my two older sisters. My dad, whilst I am on good terms with him, has never really gotten close to me, being divorced from my mum. This raises the question: has a lack of a proper male role model led to my homosexuality?

Even more frightening is my personality; I'm an attention seeker. My life is shit boring, for lack of a better word. I have quite little interesting happening and it leads me to wonder whether these feelings are generated out of an inner need to feel different to others around me. Will some day, after coming out, I suddenly lose this need once I escape the pack of high school and start to lead my own different life? Will i have to (embarrassingly) go around to all my friends and family and suddenly tell them 'Sorry, false alarm, I'm straight'. That would be an awful experience, and people would start to question my sexual morality (even more so, after the whole gay thing).

I guess my whole point is people out there have to realise a lot of the battle for people like me is trying to understand why we have these homosexual tendencies, and whether its a legit genetic trait or just some pathetic way to try and stand out in a crowd. But then again, it could just be me .

 

[katie tully]

There is no causative link between men raised in female dominated families becoming homosexual.

AFAIK.

 

[jules.09]

The Council of Bishops. There has always been tension between their authority and the Pope's. The Pope is chosen from amongst them and all major decisions are undertaken with very close collaboration with them

The Vatican sounds a lot like the equivalent of the United Nations, only, with vested interests and completely non-secular. I don't understand the purpose of the Vatican or the position of the Pope, other than being mere puppetry, in a gilded basilica. A bit superfluous, no?

But essentially, closing the sexual act to the gift of life is always wrong and offends God. This goes for the couple using contraceptives, to the common teenage wanker. Homosexuality is a trial and we must accept those who suffer from it with respect, compassion and sensitivity - not unjust discrimination. They are called to chastity and the unique inner-freedom which stems from self-mastery.

Behind each of us is a wind that determines our course in life. We never see it or truely know it; we only feel it... Homosexuals are still loved by God, still set to His wind and given a unique purpose in the world; all they have to do is realise it...

Well, I suppose you can see it that way, but people actively use contraception as part of safe sex practices, to prevent the tramission of STDs etc. For example, the AIDS situation in Africa can be somewhat alleviated if they were allowed to use contraception, but the Pope on the otherhand, condemns it. This intervention is somewhat inconsiderate on the Church's part, is it not?

At any rate, these children inherit AIDS from their parents and several generations along, they are all affected by AIDs and have an exceptionally short life expectancy. They all die out. Perhaps Iron, being in a "developed" country such as ours, you are very removed from this, and it is much easier to theorise about morality and adhere to theological doctrine, but pragmatically, this is not a viable option. I'm not aware of the Bible explicitly discussing contraception, seeing as it was available as late as 1870 in Russia.

From your proposition, it appears that you believe that people are born with purpose or alternatively, are 'trialled'. Why are certain people 'trialled'? Some people are contented to accept their homosexuality, others propose that they 'would rather be hetereosexual' so that they can be exempt from the associated stigma. The latter are in denial and are suffering, the former, celebrate their gayness. Perhaps, it would be better for everyone to just acknowledge their condition and for society to accept it. They are not succumbing to temptation, it's just inherent to their person.

I don't think sheer willpower can transcend Down Syndrome either, at any rate.

 

[Tully B.]

Well, I suppose you can see it that way, but people actively use contraception as part of safe sex practices, to prevent the tramission of STDs etc. For example, the AIDS situation in Africa can be somewhat alleviated if they were allowed to use contraception, but the Pope on the otherhand, condemns it. This intervention is somewhat inconsiderate on the Church's part, is it not?

At any rate, these children inherit AIDS from their parents and several generations along, they are all affected by AIDs and have an exceptionally short life expectancy. They all die out. Perhaps Iron, being in a "developed" country such as ours, you are very removed from this, and it is much easier to theorise about morality and adhere to theological doctrine, but pragmatically, this is not a viable option. I'm not aware of the Bible explicitly discussing contraception, seeing as it was available as late as 1870 in Russia.

It is my belief that the Church is one the strongest contributing factors to the magnitude of AIDS in Africa. There was quite a large thread on it a while ago...

Didn't the whole "contraception" thing come from when the bible said something like "It is better to spill your seed into a whore than on the ground". Probably from Leviticus or Deuteronomy, and probably taken out of context.

 

[kami]

Where to start....

Okay this is just meant to be an insight of what it is like for someone like me, something to think about before others post their thoughts (if they haven't had their own such experience).

This would be the fourth time I have told someone this; I'm gay.

But here's there kicker: I don't even know if that's true!

For about two years now I have found myself sexually attracted towards men, and I am perfectly okay with that and I know all my friends and family would be okay with it (the three that I have told so far have been okay with it). There would be very little change in my life if I were to go out to everyone right now and tell them that I am gay and proud of it.

But when the psychologist within me looks at it I become frightened. Similar to a previous poster, my life is mainly dominated by females; my mother and my two older sisters. My dad, whilst I am on good terms with him, has never really gotten close to me, being divorced from my mum. This raises the question: has a lack of a proper male role model led to my homosexuality?

Even more frightening is my personality; I'm an attention seeker. My life is shit boring, for lack of a better word. I have quite little interesting happening and it leads me to wonder whether these feelings are generated out of an inner need to feel different to others around me. Will some day, after coming out, I suddenly lose this need once I escape the pack of high school and start to lead my own different life? Will i have to (embarrassingly) go around to all my friends and family and suddenly tell them 'Sorry, false alarm, I'm straight'. That would be an awful experience, and people would start to question my sexual morality (even more so, after the whole gay thing).

I guess my whole point is people out there have to realise a lot of the battle for people like me is trying to understand why we have these homosexual tendencies, and whether its a legit genetic trait or just some pathetic way to try and stand out in a crowd. But then again, it could just be me .

You don't need to why to know the what, don't feel like you need to justify yourself, dude. You like guys - would knowing why you are gay in the first place change that? And if it did ... does it really need to be changed? It might be more expedient to just accept yourself.

 

[Iron]

The Vatican sounds a lot like the equivalent of the United Nations, only, with vested interests and completely non-secular. I don't understand the purpose of the Vatican or the position of the Pope, other than being mere puppetry, in a gilded basilica. A bit superfluous, no?



Well, I suppose you can see it that way, but people actively use contraception as part of safe sex practices, to prevent the tramission of STDs etc. For example, the AIDS situation in Africa can be somewhat alleviated if they were allowed to use contraception, but the Pope on the otherhand, condemns it. This intervention is somewhat inconsiderate on the Church's part, is it not?

At any rate, these children inherit AIDS from their parents and several generations along, they are all affected by AIDs and have an exceptionally short life expectancy. They all die out. Perhaps Iron, being in a "developed" country such as ours, you are very removed from this, and it is much easier to theorise about morality and adhere to theological doctrine, but pragmatically, this is not a viable option. I'm not aware of the Bible explicitly discussing contraception, seeing as it was available as late as 1870 in Russia.

From your proposition, it appears that you believe that people are born with purpose or alternatively, are 'trialled'. Why are certain people 'trialled'? Some people are contented to accept their homosexuality, others propose that they 'would rather be hetereosexual' so that they can be exempt from the associated stigma. The latter are in denial and are suffering, the former, celebrate their gayness. Perhaps, it would be better for everyone to just acknowledge their condition and for society to accept it. They are not succumbing to temptation, it's just inherent to their person.

I don't think sheer willpower can transcend Down Syndrome either, at any rate.

I dont understand why you find the Vatican superfluous. The authority and structure is one of its greatest strengths. If you leave great moral questions to yourself, as the Prot will do, you will more then likely choose your self interest, justify your sin and invent a plastic Jesus who loves you and your wicked ways. The Catholic is less deluded and is set straight through the humility and release of confession.

Not sure that I have the energy to go back to our stance on contraception. I'll just say that the bible cleary gives us the authority to believe that life is sacred, willed by God and made in His image. We also view sex as a unique gift for life and monogomy as sacred as our belief in one true God. So there is ample authority to oppose the suppression and denial of life, which, I think, ties in with your first question, in that the role of today's Catholic hierarchy is to tie our doctrine to a rapidly and constantly changing world. Given the nature and speed of the change of the last 200yrs, we've probably been overwhelmed in this regard, but the Truth has always been there...

 

[kami]

Iron, what is your position regarding dildos? Given that you are against sex for recreation.

 

[Iron]

You know my position Kami. Dont seek to cheapen me, pls. I take every opportunity to bask in your dignified reason.

 

[kami]

You know my position Kami. Dont seek to cheapen me, pls. I take every opportunity to bask in your dignified reason.

Well, I am more interested in dildos because (for the most part) it is about female orgasm, which has nothing to do with procreation. If a woman bangs herself with a dildo then it is not a denial of the sacred thing that is life.

And I wish you did, Iron, but you made your feelings quite clear when you said that you didn't care if I became Muslim scum.

 

[Iron]

Well, I am more interested in dildos because (for the most part) it is about female orgasm, which has nothing to do with procreation. If a woman bangs herself with a dildo then it is not a denial of the sacred thing that is life.

And I wish you did, Iron, but you made your feelings quite clear when you said that you didn't care if I became Muslim scum.

Lol. The woman is still mocking the act which should be reserved for procreation +losing self-control etc.
I dont like this simplification of sex into a very specific physical benifit for the individual, when it's really meant to be the climax of a much deeper spiritual and emotional bond between human beings. Far greater than this ugly materialism

 

[kami]

Lol. The woman is still mocking the act which should be reserved for procreation +losing self-control etc.
I dont like this simplification of sex into a very specific physical benifit for the individual, when it's really meant to be the climax of a much deeper spiritual and emotional bond between human beings. Far greater than this ugly materialism

What if she uses one of these: Vibrating Eggs and Vibrating Bullets

Is it still a mockery of sex as it should be? What are the limits and lines of mockery of sex, sex proper and anything that falls outside those exact lines? And more importantly, what is it permitted for two people of the same sex to do to each other? Bondage? Masturbation? Massage? Frotting? Whipping? Food play?

 

[Iron]

I can tell that the core of you is good Kami. Who or what corrupted you so badly?