English Discussion: ESL/Standard/Advanced Courses (2 Viewers)

[study-freak]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

My mum probably had madsam's point of view. She also thought that I would totally fail Uni if I were to choose ESL for my HSC. Trust me...she thought ESL was like re-learning alphabet or something

Ah, I see. That's quite bad because I'm sure you would have been able to get higher scores if you could do ESL.
Well, at least you studied English harder (i.e. better at it) because you had to do adv and so there were some advs, I guess.

 

[shady145]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

whenever i cruise through other subjects with minimal amount of studying, english somehow requires triple the amount i study for other subjects and i still don't perform as well as other subjects.

+1

 

[ehtefaz.hedayet]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

+1

+2

 

[madsam]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Now, you are composing a more logical argument than before.

I do agree that for some, ESL is an easy option.
However, I disagree with your statement about exploiting the system.

This is because I do think that other ESL students and I had similar opportunities to study English. I know that some find English language harder than others but this shouldn't prevent those who find English easier from doing ESL.
I did try very hard (without exaggerating) to study English since I came here in Year 9. If my English language ability is good enough to cope with the demands of standard English course, that's a result of my effort, in my opinion.
Should a person who tried harder be forced to choose a harder course (which means it's harder to gain marks in the course) than a person who didn't try as hard?
My answer to that question is definitely no.

I think regardless of aptitude and past/present performance, people who had similar opportunities to study English should have equal (or approximately equal) rights to choose the English course that they would like to choose.

And about the highlighted part, I'm just wondering from which part of my posts you got the impression that I am incompetent at English?

Well, you talk of people who do ESL as though they struggle with the English language, and so i naturally assumed that you, doing ESL, fit into your own stereotype then

You say that you believe that people who have undergone the same situation should be given the same opportunity, but then you get people who are perfectly capable of doing standard topping ESL simply because they can.

Its a similar issue with special provisions,
"The Herald has exposed flaws in the HSC examination process that have allowed up to 30 per cent of students at some of the more expensive private schools to get special treatment, such as extra exam time."

Sauce:Elite students exploit uni entry scheme - National - smh.com.au

Its the same issue there, the option to apply for special provisions is widely available and there's no rule saying you can't apply for it, so why not do it?
It can only advantage you

Do you appreciate private schools doing this? It sure as hell doesn't seem fair, but how can they distinguish the legitimate students from those who claim to have...well just look at the picture in the link, without the students deciding whether or not they deserve special provisions

 

[annabackwards]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Well, you talk of people who do ESL as though they struggle with the English language, and so i naturally assumed that you, doing ESL, fit into your own stereotype then

You say that you believe that people who have undergone the same situation should be given the same opportunity, but then you get people who are perfectly capable of doing standard topping ESL simply because they can.

Its a similar issue with special provisions,
"The Herald has exposed flaws in the HSC examination process that have allowed up to 30 per cent of students at some of the more expensive private schools to get special treatment, such as extra exam time."

Sauce:Elite students exploit uni entry scheme - National - smh.com.au

Its the same issue there, the option to apply for special provisions is widely available and there's no rule saying you can't apply for it, so why not do it?
It can only advantage you

Do you appreciate private schools doing this? It sure as hell doesn't seem fair, but how can they distinguish the legitimate students from those who claim to have...well just look at the picture in the link, without the students deciding whether or not they deserve special provisions

So what? Lots of people could have picked general maths instead of 4u and topped that subject. But because of how the ATAR system works all subjects are scaled so everything evens out anyway. So get back on topic or start another thread where you can argue all you like!

Anyway, i would just like to reiterate the fact that English sucks!

 

[lyounamu]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

So what? Lots of people could have picked general maths instead of 4u and topped that subject. But because of how the ATAR system works all subjects are scaled so everything evens out anyway. So get back on topic or start another thread where you can argue all you like!

Anyway, i would just like to reiterate the fact that English sucks!

umm....lol but that's a totally different story though...
think about it. even if you TOP general, u only get 45/50 scaled. You might as well try your best in 4 unit to be placed top 40% or something and get 45/50 scaled that way. and besides doing 4 unit means extra units...

 

[study-freak]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Well, you talk of people who do ESL as though they struggle with the English language, and so i naturally assumed that you, doing ESL, fit into your own stereotype then

You say that you believe that people who have undergone the same situation should be given the same opportunity, but then you get people who are perfectly capable of doing standard topping ESL simply because they can.

Its a similar issue with special provisions,
"The Herald has exposed flaws in the HSC examination process that have allowed up to 30 per cent of students at some of the more expensive private schools to get special treatment, such as extra exam time."

Sauce:Elite students exploit uni entry scheme - National - smh.com.au

Its the same issue there, the option to apply for special provisions is widely available and there's no rule saying you can't apply for it, so why not do it?
It can only advantage you

Do you appreciate private schools doing this? It sure as hell doesn't seem fair, but how can they distinguish the legitimate students from those who claim to have...well just look at the picture in the link, without the students deciding whether or not they deserve special provisions

Did those who are capable of doing standard but doing ESL have more opportunity than others doing ESL to learn more English? I think this is the questions that needs to be answered.

Yes, I get your point and what the picture in your link is trying to convey to its responders. However, that problem arises from the subjectivity of elligibility rules for special provisions, IMO.
E.g. It's indeed very hard to distinguish between a 'severe' symptom from a 'moderate' or a 'fake' symptom (in terms of health conditions).


Assuming that all teachers correctly follow the Board of Studies rules and procedures, only students who have been in a country/countries with English language background for 5 years or less may choose ESL.

This rule does not have any subjective components in it such as 'severe health problem.' Although this rule means there can be a 3 years gap in English learning oppotunity between students doing ESL, I believe that this allows an adequately fair selection of students to do ESL.

On average, people who have stayed in an English based country for only 5 years or less do not have the knowledge base to cope with the mainstream standard or advanced English, IMO. Even if they manage to cope with them, I think it will be just bloody difficult to get band 5 or 6 in them, when their natural aptitude may not be lower than any other native English speakers (although this is an assumption that can't be proven).



And also, of course if a person is able to top ESL, the person should be capable of doing standard. Are you saying that no ESL students must be allowed to get over, say 80/100 or 90/100 in exams? (because I'm sure if a student can get 90/100 in HSC ESL papers, that person can do well in standard as well.)

 

[annabackwards]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

umm....lol but that's a totally different story though...
think about it. even if you TOP general, u only get 45/50 scaled. You might as well try your best in 4 unit to be placed top 40% or something and get 45/50 scaled that way. and besides doing 4 unit means extra units...

That's what i'm saying, you're mark is moderated/scaled based on the competition you're up against so who cares if some students get to pick ESL and some don't

LOL @ youngminii XD

 

[cwalker]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Eng adv is fucking highest scaling out of advanced standard and esl.
Esl is 2nd highest
standard is lowest
look at the bos scaling records

 

[lyounamu]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Eng adv is fucking highest scaling out of advanced standard and esl.
Esl is 2nd highest
standard is lowest
look at the bos scaling records

Yeah, please look at them again. You will see why both Advanced and Standard have the same scaling.

 

[ehtefaz.hedayet]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

Eng adv is fucking highest scaling out of advanced standard and esl.
Esl is 2nd highest
standard is lowest
look at the bos scaling records

wtf???

 

[cwalker]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

only 2 ppl in standard achieve band 6 each year
standard are ppl who are fucking shit
esl ppl would be disadvantaged if it was bad scale becoz it is their 2nd language.

 

[lyounamu]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

only 2 ppl in standard achieve band 6 each year
standard are ppl who are fucking shit
esl ppl would be disadvantaged if it was bad scale becoz it is their 2nd language.

more like 20+ people

 

[cwalker]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

my teacher who marks HSC english said average of 2.
Because even if you get full marks in Standard paper, you scaled mark gets fucking capped like a fucking gay shit ass bitch.

 

[youngminii]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

my teacher who marks HSC english said average of 2.
Because even if you get full marks in Standard paper, you scaled mark gets fucking capped like a fucking gay shit ass bitch.

Facepalm

Besides Jimmy, using that logic I can say "Okay last year our school had an average of 2 Band 6s in Advanced English, hence we're fucked"

 

[shady145]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

only 2 ppl in standard achieve band 6 each year
standard are ppl who are fucking shit
esl ppl would be disadvantaged if it was bad scale becoz it is their 2nd language.

lets look at recent years
2006 = 6-7
2007 = 22-23
2008 = 73-74
band 6's in std english...

 

[study-freak]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

lets look at recent years
2006 = 6-7
2007 = 22-23
2008 = 73-74
band 6's in std english...

Wow.. It's increasing exponentially

 

[annabackwards]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

my teacher who marks HSC english said average of 2.
Because even if you get full marks in Standard paper, you scaled mark gets fucking capped like a fucking gay shit ass bitch.

As Namu said, the scaling is the same. The difference is in the aligning.

Wow.. It's increasing exponentially

OOOooo yeah it is. Perhaps the stadnards kids are beginning to understand how to answer English paper 1 ^^

 

[shady145]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

As Namu said, the scaling is the same. The difference is in the aligning.


OOOooo yeah it is. Perhaps the stadnards kids are beginning to understand how to answer English paper 1 ^^

or more people are trying harder XD

 

[Without Wings]

Re: Which subjects would you achieve the top band in?

only 2 ppl in standard achieve band 6 each year

more like 20+ people

Depends on the year.

Standard English Band 6 Stats:

• 2001: 0% (Candidature: 36479)
• 2002: 0% (Candidature: 37478)
• 2003: 0% (Candidature: 33235)
• 2004: 0% (Candidature: 31019)
• 2005: 0.01% (Candidature: 30294)
• 2006: 0.02% (Candidature: 30634)
• 2007: 0.07% (Candidature: 31161)
• 2008: 0.23% (Candidature: 32334)

Source: Board of Studies