Doing the sums - does a private education add up? (5 Viewers)

[Annihilist]

I have my resentment for private education because I hate the way they try to suppress your identity for the sake of a collective school image. I went to a grammar school though, so maybe it was just the school. It appeared to be exempt from basic discrimination laws (as a guy, I was forced to cut my hair under school uniform regulations).

But for private education in itself, I find it hard to justify that people with more money can buy their way into better education with the private system. It only increases the class gap, and further bestows value to individuals according to their monetary wealth.

In my opinion, people with more money do not necessarily deserve better education. But people with more money get better education. I don't see that as just.

I think we should have a national curriculum and abolish the private school system. Absolute equal opportunities for everyone. Then your achievements are based on your merit, not how much money you inherit from your parents.

Religious schools also fall under the "private school" category, and I believe religious schools should be outlawed. Religion should not be mixed with academics, and education systems. Religion should be a family and personal thing, not something taught in our school system, private or public.

 

[Lolsmith]

This is why Pauline Hanson needs to get back into federal parliament. (Note; I have nothing against Australian born Chinese).

seriously

you fuckwits ban cosmo for having "incompatible views" or some retarded shit but you let this dumb cunt spew actual racism like it's nothing

 

[soloooooo]

But for private education in itself, I find it hard to justify that people with more money can buy their way into better education with the private system. It only increases the class gap, and further bestows value to individuals according to their monetary wealth.

Here here.

Religious schools also fall under the "private school" category, and I believe religious schools should be outlawed. Religion should not be mixed with academics, and education systems. Religion should be a family and personal thing, not something taught in our school system, private or public.

I don't have a problem with religious schools personally. If it is a Christian school, no problem. If it is a radical Islamic school teaching students that terrorists are martyrs, then yes that is a problem.

 

[zombies]

I have my resentment for private education because I hate the way they try to suppress your identity for the sake of a collective school image. I went to a grammar school though, so maybe it was just the school. It appeared to be exempt from basic discrimination laws (as a guy, I was forced to cut my hair under school uniform regulations).

Yeah I think all private schools are like that. My old (private) school - knee length skirts, hair to be tied up if long enough, only studs for earrings (and no other piercings, just one in each ear) etc.

 

[soloooooo]

seriously

you fuckwits ban cosmo for having "incompatible views" or some retarded shit but you let this dumb cunt spew actual racism like it's nothing

Perhaps you missed my note. I value the Australian economy and society over any other country's, as every Australian should. I don't hold any grudges against people of any X skin colour.

 

[Lolsmith]

I have my resentment for private education because I hate the way they try to suppress your identity for the sake of a collective school image. I went to a grammar school though, so maybe it was just the school. It appeared to be exempt from basic discrimination laws (as a guy, I was forced to cut my hair under school uniform regulations).

But for private education in itself, I find it hard to justify that people with more money can buy their way into better education with the private system. It only increases the class gap, and further bestows value to individuals according to their monetary wealth.

In my opinion, people with more money do not necessarily deserve better education. But people with more money get better education. I don't see that as just.

I think we should have a national curriculum and abolish the private school system. Absolute equal opportunities for everyone. Then your achievements are based on your merit, not how much money you inherit from your parents.

Religious schools also fall under the "private school" category, and I believe religious schools should be outlawed. Religion should not be mixed with academics, and education systems. Religion should be a family and personal thing, not something taught in our school system, private or public.

There is literally no class gap in this country. It goes billionaires, rest of country. There have been private schools on this continent before Australia was even a thing. History does not correlate with your statements. You don't have a gentry and then peasants that serve their vassal lords. There are no enshrined classes in this country like there is in Britain. We don't have Lords or anything of the sort. The only difference in this country is income.

You know you say you're "anti-fascist" when you're actually a fascist right?

 

[Lolsmith]

Perhaps you missed my note. I value the Australian economy and society over any other country's, as every Australian should. I don't hold any grudges against people of any X skin colour.

no you are actually racist

you can say "I have nothing against Australian born Chinese" but you are seriously and actually racist when you say that racial compositions of society are a problem

Whether you're willing to accept yourself as a racist is a completely different story.

 

[theycallmebob]

Perhaps you missed my note. I value the Australian economy and society over any other country's, as every Australian should. I don't hold any grudges against people of any X skin colour.

so if australia somehow became poor and dangerous due to war or whatever, you would have no problem with other countries not letting you escape there?

and what do you think the asian people at ruse and whatnot are doing for our economy other than contributing with their massive academic success?

 

[soloooooo]

no you are actually racist

you can say "I have nothing against Australian born Chinese" but you are seriously and actually racist when you say that racial compositions of society are a problem

Whether you're willing to accept yourself as a racist is a completely different story.

What I am saying is that Australian born Chinese who hold Australian values are great. We don't need international Chinese so much though.

 

[soloooooo]

so if australia somehow became poor and dangerous due to war or whatever, you would have no problem with other countries not letting you escape there?

and what do you think the asian people at ruse are doing for our economy other than contributing with their massive academic success?

Yes. It is not going to happen however.

Note: China is also not at war & refugee status.

 

[Annihilist]

There is literally no class gap in this country. It goes billionaires, rest of country. There have been private schools on this continent before Australia was even a thing. History does not correlate with your statements. You don't have a gentry and then peasants that serve their vassal lords. There are no enshrined classes in this country like there is in Britain. We don't have Lords or anything of the sort. The only difference in this country is income.

You know you say you're "anti-fascist" when you're actually a fascist right?

I think you missed my point entirely.

If the value of education is determined by how much money you have, where does that leave us? It basically means that the people who can afford private education buy into the system; and the people who can't go to public school. There are a number of implications from this system.

For one, the demographics. What demographic of people can afford to send their kids to private schools? Most likely doctors, lawyers, and people who went to private schools themselves because their parents could afford it. What about the sort of people who send their kids to public school? Basically, anyone else. So the kids who come from upper-middle class backgrounds get better education and the kids from lower-middle class backgrounds get sent to public schools. People in private schools get better education and better results (statistically) and people in public schools vary, but for the most part their results are of lesser standard than those in private schools. I see class gap here.

The second is just simply put, wealth. People with more money have access to a higher standard of education. People with less money don't have this access. So if you can afford to buy your way into the private school system, you do so. So people's results are ultimately based on how much money families have to throw away on private education, rather than their individual merits and capacity.

I think that if everyone is given an equal opportunity in a public system, then kids are more likely to exceed based on their merits and skills, rather than how much money their parents have.

And yes, I know this is a MASSIVE generalisation, and it's different for many people in varying circumstances. But it is a general trend, and on a large enough scale (i.e. a nation) it is an adequate point to make.

And I don't understand how you can call me a fascist.

 

[zombies]

Look there is no doubt, that you can do good at any school, It ultimately up to the student. To be honest i hate this " Private vs Public" debate. Its ridiculous!! I think that Public schools, Education wise that is! is of the same if not better standard as private schools. That is a fair statement Btw look at the top ten schools nuff said =P

But the top 10 are selective, not just a normal public school. So with the entrance exams obviously they're going to pull in the best students.

 

[Annihilist]

I don't have a problem with religious schools personally. If it is a Christian school, no problem. If it is a radical Islamic school teaching students that terrorists are martyrs, then yes that is a problem.

Many christian schools are hardly distinguishable from radical islamic schools in that regard. Mixing religion with education is dangerous. Religion is a personal thing, and many religious schools preach to kids with their own personal messages. Such as the concept of hell and sin and salvation etc. Kids are malleable and should not be taught, in an academic setting, that they will burn in hell if they think about sex before they are married, for example. Because they will believe it and it is damaging to their upbringing.

Before Lolsmith jumps in, teaching kids about this sort of religious evangelicalism is more fascist than anything I value.

 

[theycallmebob]

Yes. It is not going to happen however.

Note: China is also not at war & refugee status.

china is way overcrowded and suffering poverty, anyway the whole ideal you are promoting shits in the face of people escaping those kinds of situations.

 

[Drongoski]

Private schools allow parents to avoid ethnic ghettos like Ruse, Baulko, North Sydney Boys etc.

 

[soloooooo]

Private schools allow parents to avoid ethnic ghettos like Ruse, Baulko, North Sydney Boys etc.

Fair call. I would rather my children be educated in a multicultural school rather than one that is 95% Asian etc.

 

[Lolsmith]

I think you missed my point entirely.

If the value of education is determined by how much money you have, where does that leave us? It basically means that the people who can afford private education buy into the system; and the people who can't go to public school. There are a number of implications from this system.

No it isn't? The schools that score the best results in this country are public (albeit selective) schools. You're the one who is putting the emphasis of private schools being superior to public schools, when that is most certainly not the case in this country.

So before even addressing any further stupidity in your post, your original assumption is left without a leg to stand on.

For one, the demographics. What demographic of people can afford to send their kids to private schools? Most likely doctors, lawyers, and people who went to private schools themselves because their parents could afford it. What about the sort of people who send their kids to public school? Basically, anyone else. So the kids who come from upper-middle class backgrounds get better education and the kids from lower-middle class backgrounds get sent to public schools. People in private schools get better education and better results (statistically) and people in public schools vary, but for the most part their results are of lesser standard than those in private schools. I see class gap here.

Have you ever thought, just for a second, that their education is not the only factor that influences their results? Natural ability is a greater influence on one's results than compared to their education. Good teachers do have an influence and they can improve results, but this is not the be all and end all. Those who are doctors and lawyers are often more intelligent. This must have some effect on their offspring, however it is disputable how great that can be. When you consider that natural ability is important, it covers the outliers in your gross generalisations.

What is "upper-middle" class? How do you define this?

The second is just simply put, wealth. People with more money have access to a higher standard of education. People with less money don't have this access. So if you can afford to buy your way into the private school system, you do so. So people's results are ultimately based on how much money families have to throw away on private education, rather than their individual merits and capacity.

How can you draw this conclusion? This does not follow any logical argument. Spending more money does not automatically imply that you're going to receive greater value in any circumstance let alone something as varied as education. This conclusion also ignores that there are children from low socioeconomic backgrounds, let alone public schools, who score better than private school students. Where do they factor into your assumption that individual capacity doesn't count?

I think that if everyone is given an equal opportunity in a public system, then kids are more likely to exceed based on their merits and skills, rather than how much money their parents have.

Students will succeed if they are capable of doing so. You won't see a student who can't understand basic mathematics completing an Extension 2 Mathematics course with a state rank. Students are affected by their teachers, but they're more affected by their environments and peers. Crippling those students who are born into higher income families, through no choice of their own, is a disgusting and cruel practice. You would be happy to see everyone dragged into poverty and mediocrity so you can fulfill some arbitrary notion of "equality".

And I don't understand how you can call me a fascist.

You seriously want to outlaw things because you don't like them. That is a common trend in fascist regimes. You are willing to curb out anything that doesn't fit into your idyllic utopian ideals of egalitarianism, which is the exact same thing fascists do, just to different ends.

Apparently you're an anarchist as well? So how do you expect to outlaw the petting things you don't like if no state exists?

 

[Lolsmith]

Many christian schools are hardly distinguishable from radical islamic schools in that regard. Mixing religion with education is dangerous. Religion is a personal thing, and many religious schools preach to kids with their own personal messages. Such as the concept of hell and sin and salvation etc. Kids are malleable and should not be taught, in an academic setting, that they will burn in hell if they think about sex before they are married, for example. Because they will believe it and it is damaging to their upbringing.

Before Lolsmith jumps in, teaching kids about this sort of religious evangelicalism is more fascist than anything I value.

You want to outlaw freedom of association and religion

You are indistinguishable from Stalin

 

[Lolsmith]

What I am saying is that Australian born Chinese who hold Australian values are great. We don't need international Chinese so much though.

So where do these Australian born Chinese come from?

 

[theycallmebob]

Fair call. I would rather my children be educated in a multicultural school rather than one that is 95% Asian etc.

so what you're saying is that you DO have a problem with asians in that they would have a bad influence on your children?