Gay marriage in NSW/Australia (1 Viewer)

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Lets just agree to disagree shall we.

In relation to the thread topic, the exact reason why I dont accept gay marriage is simple. Marriage is (and has always been) considered an exclusive union between male and female. It has been said that homosexuality has been around throughout history, although up until the last couple of years or so the notion of gay marriage and gay rights have never been raised and brought into the public spotlight as they are at present.
If homosexuality has been present alongside mainstream society for all this time then why now?

I accept homosexuality, altough I dont accept its intergration into mainstream society and the notion of same sex marriages. And sorry guy/girls, but im not the only one.

They thought the world was flat for thousands of years, why should they have changed their minds?

 

[Xayma]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Do you have a link to any of the "large amount of evidence? I still cant fathom the idea of somebody, beit male or female being born gay.

At the very least a predisposition (I believe, and backed up by research) towards homosexuality from genetic influences in some people and natal conditions in some as well.

Mothers' genetic skew linked to gay sons

...Only 4% of the mothers without gay sons showed this skewing, compared with 14% of mothers with at least one gay son. Among mothers with two or more gay sons, the figure was 23%....

Survival of genetic homosexual traits explained

...Mothers of gay men produced an average of 2.7 babies compared with 2.3 born to mothers of straight men. And maternal aunts of gay men had 2.0 babies compared with 1.5 born to the maternal aunts of straight men.
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Their findings also support earlier findings that when mothers have several sons, the younger ones are progressively more likely to be gay. This might be due to effects changes to the mother’s immune system with each son they carry.
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But Camperio-Ciani calculates the contribution of this effect to male homosexuality at 7% at most. So together, he says, the “maternal” and “immune” effects only account for 21% of male homosexuality, leaving 79% of the causation still a mystery.

Also, although the human study is controversial
Homosexuality is biological, suggests gay sheep study

A study of gay sheep appears to confirm the controversial suggestion that there is a biological basis for sexual preference.

The work shows that rams that prefer male sexual partners had small but distinct differences in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus, when compared with rams that preferred to mate with ewes. ...

There are many studies in animals which indicates homosexual realtionships between them again supporting biological reasoning.

Also if you can get access to the Janurary 17, 2004 copy there is an article entitled: The in-crowd: same-sex relationships are not a biological dead end. They are a glue that helps hold many animal societies together, and a fatal flaw in one of Darwin's central ideas, argues evolutionary ecologist Joan Roughgarden. (Charles Darwin) Joan Roughgarden.

That is interesting.

One of my many posts on the issue.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

If homosexuality has been present alongside mainstream society for all this time then why now?

Have you never been to a modern history class?

I thought it would be quite clear the claims for gay marriage have been part of a movement of the last century of oppressed people in the 1st world nations. It is only now through a fairly long struggle that the mainstream would first listen to such claims and maybe accept them.

You only have to look at the last century to see why now it is a appropriate time to demand such rights.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Hello :wave:

May I point out this thread, which was probably one of the most heated and intelligent discussions on the topic I've seen in these forums

(especially past page 30)

 

[Pubert]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

:burn:

I hope you fucking go to jail, you homophobic prick. Would you bash someone for being black? It's illegal and discrimination and quite frankly, ridiculous as it could have been a compliment. I have hot straight friends and i tell them this and they do not mind as they know nothing sexual will ever come between us.

Gay people do not go for non-gays.

My parents did not raise me any differently or "gayer" so if you analyse my childhood i doubt you will find anything that caused me to like boys. People have the right to choose their sexuality as people who are not gay have no involvent whatsoever in telling them what is morally right.

Firstly im not homophobic. We mind our business and hardly ever talk to him then out the blue he calls my friend hot, like wtf?
My friend seriously regrets not hitting him, why should the fucking pillow biter or fudge packer call him hot?

We weren't going to hit him for being gay, we were going to hit him for calling my friend hot and being serious about it. How does my friend know the poof isn't hitting on him in class? How fucking weird is that? I think he should have been taught a lesson for acting like an idiot.

 

[The_highwayman]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

and if "he" was a "she" would you smash her too?

 

[Pubert]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

No, because that would be normal and my friend wouldnt have any objections to that.

 

[premer]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

The fact that homosexual people are pushing for marriage is not worrying, what is worrying is that the media is allowing totalitarian extreamists to voice their neo-nazi, contempory views to brainwash the rest of us. We should be talking about that. To finally answer this question, the people pushing for Gay Marriage are all straight!! They just have too much time on their hands like me right now!

 

[*Minka*]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

No, they shouldnt.

Marriage was meant for male and females. No debate.

Gays should be shot. Their plight and protesting over their "rights" is becoming what women were to the feminist movements. Sorry, call me old fashioned, or what ever you may, but I cant accept them.

Whats with people thinking they were born gay? That is laughable.

Honey, I have been shot as a child. Should I be shot again because I am a woman who believes she is fully entitled to be treated equal to men and receive the same benefits, salary and riights?

And yes, people are born gay. My older brother is one of them. You know, the brother who saved me life twice during the war by risking his own. Such a horrible person huh?

 

[davin]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

No, because that would be normal and my friend wouldnt have any objections to that.

would be alright if you or one of your friends got beaten up because of something you said about a girl as well?

 

[Pubert]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I wouldn't say anything to anyone in that sense if i thought it will offend them, unless something has been said to me initially.

 

[davin]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

but if a friend of yours did say something, it'd be fine for him to get beaten up, right?

 

[Pubert]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

He said it knowing that my friend would take offence to it and with the intention of stirring shit.

Also the two gay people at my school are the dirtiest pieces of shits ive ever met, they are always talking about sex toys and all this fucked up shit. They are also the porno dealers for those who are limited with dial up.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

He said it knowing that my friend would take offence to it and with the intention of stirring shit.

Also the two gay people at my school are the dirtiest pieces of shits ive ever met, they are always talking about sex toys and all this fucked up shit. They are also the porno dealers for those who are limited with dial up.

And you've proven his point, that you're immature troglodytes who should be removed from the gene pool.

Also, I know plenty of people who are straight, and talk about sex a lot. Does this make them dirty?

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

What if someone say, liked the colour red, and you liked the colour blue and came up to you and said 'hey I prefer red' would you get your mates together to beat that person up because they thought differently.

Thats a pathetic attempt at trying to draw comparisons between a colour and somebodys sexuality.
Ok, we can basically agree that in the last couple of pages, myself and pubert are opposed to the views of yours, and the gay community. There is nothing strange about this. Its life. You cant convince everybody.

The issue that I thought was interesting which has been raised is this; if somebody is not as accepting as yourself with this issue, and they voice their opinions, and their viewpoints and morals are not accepted here almost as if it were singling them out as a result, would that not be descriminating against these people just as much as you think we are descriminating against gays, as everybody has the right to place their opinions?

It just occured to me that it smells a bit like that.

I cant condone the behaviour of homosexuals, or their choices, and for that my views are decriminated against? Despite what you think you might know about me, Im not a bigot, nor an anti-homo supremist. Im simply a guy who has certain morals and beliefs that will not shift 0.00001 mm. This issue is one of them. Not the only one.

Should I be descriminated against as a result of having differing views to the majority of participants in this thread? The issue at hand is that gays want certain rights. If society is to be accepting of gays and their rights, then gays should also realise that others with differing views should also have the right to not accept them.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

You have your views, you choose them, and must defend them.
Gays have their sexuality, most were born with it, and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Thats a pathetic attempt at trying to draw comparisons between a colour and somebodys sexuality.
Ok, we can basically agree that in the last couple of pages, myself and pubert are opposed to the views of yours, and the gay community. There is nothing strange about this. Its life. You cant convince everybody.

The issue that I thought was interesting which has been raised is this; if somebody is not as accepting as yourself with this issue, and they voice their opinions, and their viewpoints and morals are not accepted here almost as if it were singling them out as a result, would that not be descriminating against these people just as much as you think we are descriminating against gays, as everybody has the right to place their opinions?

It just occured to me that it smells a bit like that.

I cant condone the behaviour of homosexuals, or their choices, and for that my views are decriminated against? Despite what you think you might know about me, Im not a bigot, nor an anti-homo supremist. Im simply a guy who has certain morals and beliefs that will not shift 0.00001 mm. This issue is one of them. Not the only one.

Should I be descriminated against as a result of having differing views to the majority of participants in this thread? The issue at hand is that gays want certain rights. If society is to be accepting of gays and their rights, then gays should also realise that others with differing views should also have the right to not accept them.

That's wrong.

Gays are oppresed in the way they are not allowed the same rights as hetrosexuals and they are not accepted fully in the wider community. So people who push for these rights are pushing for gender and sexuality liberation.

People who oppose such things are oppressors and we do not have to consider their view as they are only for the oppression of gays.

A better example would be the slave and the slave owner. Would you find it appropriate that slave owners are giving the same right to voice over the issue of slavery? I would hope you say no.

What you have to realise is that what you propose is the oppression of gays, you think you have some right to control the rights of other people. This isn't the case, you have no right to be dictating what people do.

It was also a cheap shot to think people who have a gay sexuality and your chauvinist view are both valid and equal.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I can remember when someone first mentioned gays on here, you were like "oh.. oh i suppose.. that gays should be.. treated like.. other people" like you were finding it hard to swallow. It was interesting to see that even someone like you has their boundaries haha.

Where? Go find it because i don't know what your talking about.

 

[loquasagacious]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Hehehehehe Gay animals. Hahaha
Thanks for that, I needed it.

Im not a close minded bigot, im just looking at reality. Yes, gays do have more of a voice these days then they did say 40 years ago. But I really think that anybody, gay or not, who thinks that gays should have rights equal to that of a man/woman couple really has their head in the sand. Its not going to happen in my lifetime purely because it is an issue which goes against societies view over the last..........well forever. Agreed, todays society is somewhat more accepting, although this is an issue that goes against the moral fabric of society in all of history.
Fair enough, if gays want to express themselves amongst other like-minded people, then there shouldnt be a problem. Although the idea of same sex marriage crosses the line between what is acceptible and what is not. Not just by myself, but by the majority of society. It will remain that way.

So let me get this straight (no pun intended) you are not a close minded bigot, however you are a homophobe?

Do you believe that hetrosexuals should only express themselves among like minded individuals (eg not around homosexuals) and preferably away from the public eye? Should hetrosexual couples not kiss, hold hands or otherwise be intimate in public?

Because unless you do your dual standard makes you a homophobe.

Or perhaps your own words are even more direct:

I really think that anybody, gay or not, who thinks that gays should have rights equal to that of a man/woman couple really has their head in the sand.

In some sense to justify yourself away from this saying this is just how society is, however later you revert to form affirming that society is in fact in agreement with you (note deliberate indication of whom you percieve as agreeing with whom).

I would like to conclude with some of your central waffle, society has moved a long way in forty years (even twenty) - I believe it will continue to move. You would like to freeze it here. Forty years ago you would have confidently proclaimed that homosexuality was illegal because society did not and would never accept it as natural - ponder that.

Seeing as far more has been said in the time it took me to (lazily) write the above I will expand on it to bring it up to speed:

I cant condone the behaviour of homosexuals, or their choices, and for that my views are decriminated against? Despite what you think you might know about me, Im not a bigot, nor an anti-homo supremist. Im simply a guy who has certain morals and beliefs that will not shift 0.00001 mm. This issue is one of them. Not the only one.

Should I be descriminated against as a result of having differing views to the majority of participants in this thread? The issue at hand is that gays want certain rights. If society is to be accepting of gays and their rights, then gays should also realise that others with differing views should also have the right to not accept them.

You are trying to equate two very different things, and I am not speaking in terms of the ideas (which are also very different) but their implications.

You seem to believe that your beliefs which infringe on the rights of homosexuals should have equal weight to the beliefs of homosexuals and their supporters which do not infringe upon your rights.

When a homosexual is a homosexual this does not directly or indirectly effect you (aside from moral indignation of course) far less your rights, whereas your beliefs and there application directly discriminates against homosexuals and holds them as second class citizens, furthermore indirectly creates a culture of homophobia.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

The main reason we attack you so fiercely as we see you as the elephant in the room that refuses to die to let society progress.

Well I guess thats unfortunate for you what with me refusing to die and all, although im sure you would understand that this passion and support for same sex relationships you hold, I share the same passion with promoting opposite sex relationships. Its just a difference in opinion that will not be shifted by either side. I dont think that this is an issue society will easily progress with.

Marriage is just a stupid court-ruined term for governmentally-accepted love. Love exists in all forms, between men and women, men and men, women and women, always has, always will.

Thats quite a skewed viewpoint on something so traditional and universally accepted. Of course, IMO marriage is certainly not a "stupid court ruined term" and it never will be. There are some things that have been with us throughout history that just wont change. Peoples viewpoints will change, but marriage as a definition hasnt evolved. Only certain peoples perceptions have.

Why is this such an issue, why are you so opposed?

That im afraid, you may never understand. Its not your fault either, im not suggesting that. Just put simply, not everybody will be able to understand or accept the next persons views or opinions on a given subject. Thats human nature. Thats personality.

being constantly victimised and attacked by bigoted fools.

A bigoted fool I am not. Although feel free to think that of me, its certainly no skin off my nose. I stand for what I believe in, just the same as you do.

Love deserves recognition in laws.

The thing about the word love is, well its a subjective thing. Its in the eye of the beholder. Whereby im guessing you might see a certain love between two men or two women as being possible, I certainly do not. My definition and views on love would never make that possible.

Why the grade school, immature viewpoint?

Thats your opinion on my views.