Gay marriage in NSW/Australia (1 Viewer)

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

You have not justified your views though. You've given no utilitarian basis for the suppression of gay marriage, you've merely said "I believe that they shouldn't be married" and left it at that. It is always up to the person who supports a particular government regulation to provide justification for its existence.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

You have not justified your views though. You've given no utilitarian basis for the suppression of gay marriage, you've merely said "I believe that they shouldn't be married" and left it at that. It is always up to the person who supports a particular government regulation to provide justification for its existence.

Sorry, but I despite what you might think, there is no need for me to justify myself here. My views stem from nothing greater than my morals. They definately dont come from "supporting particular government regulation." The government has nothing to do with it. This is simply one of my morals. The core values I base judgement and decisions around. Im no homophobic. Im sure that you would go nowhere fast if you went around accusing everybody with the same morals as myself as being "homophobic." Granted, I have been aggressive in putting forward my views and beliefs, although im sure that on the opposite side of the arguement, you share a similar passion in putting across your views.

I also must point out that I have briefly given an insight into why I dont support gay marriage in anyway, and that basically stemmed from my definition of marriage being that of a union between a man and a woman. A very basic justification, although it is enough to show that you are maybe too quick to try and cut me down, and overlooked some of what I have said.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Sorry, but I despite what you might think, there is no need for me to justify myself here. My views stem from nothing greater than my morals.

Morals are an outdated concept, for example many people would consider the use of swear words to be immoral, when in fact the only reason anyone considers them immoral is because someone 50 years ago decided that the word "cunt" should be immoral. Ergo, circular argument.

They definately dont come from "supporting particular government regulation." The government has nothing to do with it.

You support the government restricting the rights of homosexuals to marry. This is explicit support of a government regulation.

This is simply one of my morals. The core values I base judgement and decisions around. Im no homophobic. Im sure that you would go nowhere fast if you went around accusing everybody with the same morals as myself as being "homophobic."

You are unsettled by the idea that somewhere two men are sodomising each other, and would prefer not to associate with homosexuals because they make you uncomfortable. This makes you homophobic.
Also, argumentum ad populum.

I also must point out that I have briefly given an insight into why I dont support gay marriage in anyway, and that basically stemmed from my definition of marriage being that of a union between a man and a woman. A very basic justification, although it is enough to show that you are maybe too quick to try and cut me down, and overlooked some of what I have said.

Appeal the the status quo. Ergo, fallacious.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I dont know what you're trying to prove here, or what your intentions are. But all I really understood from your post was that you think morals are outdated. The rest was, well hard to understand.
I have posted in this thread whether or not I think gays should be allowed to marry in NSW, and I think that this is finished now.
Read previous posts between Schroedinger and myself, and there you will find the reason as to why I think this debate (at least involving me) has finished. Sorry to bail on you, but im sure you'll find someone else to have a chat about this with.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I dont know what you're trying to prove here, or what your intentions are. But all I really understood from your post was that you think morals are outdated. The rest was, well hard to understand.
I have posted in this thread whether or not I think gays should be allowed to marry in NSW, and I think that this is finished now.
Read previous posts between Schroedinger and myself, and there you will find the reason as to why I think this debate (at least involving me) has finished. Sorry to bail on you, but im sure you'll find someone else to have a chat about this with.

You need to give a reason why it's good for society that your morals be imposed upon it, and most of my post was just explaining that your post was full of logical jumps and dead ends.

 

[tWiStEdD]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

this has been done to death, and noone ever got anywhere.
stop now, trust me.... search the forums for the past thread (if its still there!).
at any rate, it isn't up to any of you. Both the Libs and the ALP have outlawed such marriages, as 'backward' as we are. There are plenty of alternatives to marriage, why do they need to get married? etc etc. i've been there, talked it to death.
Everyone should remember that equality is an ideal but should NEVER be a reality.... life would be too damn boring.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

That's a pretty bleak outlook to have. So what if the major parties don't support it? That's why we need more young people with a commitment to these issues to join the parties and hopefully influence their decision making in the future.

And the Liberal party's not going to recognise half of my other ideals either, cause it'd be electoral suicide, but does that mean I should stop pushing them in debate?

 

[tWiStEdD]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

No. It means you should hurry up and get involved rather than whining about it on BoS forums.

Australia isn't ready for it yet. I'm definately not in favour of it either. Our (my?) generation is extremely conservative... blanket statement, i know, but in my experience they are.... I don't see such changes getting past us at all, to b e honest.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I am involved fairly heavily with the party, but it can't hurt to have debate in other places about the merits of various policies.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I have visited the socialist paradigm... But what you speak of still doesn't make sense. You aren't left wing... You're just a disgruntled dick-head who hates the white man

Just the same as i'm not right wing.. I'm just a disgruntled dick head who hates...

A man can be possessed with so much hate, that the lines between the political scale becomes blurred.. It is therefore, not which political side he belongs to, but which side has the policy which serves his sinister interests.. Yours being "any policy which ultimately serves to demise white society".

gosh, at least my sinister intentions have a remote chance of succeeding. Yours have none :O

Let me guess, you were for the RU-486 shnazzz being transferred to the TGA? .. And so were the greens. Which makes me suspicious :|

I wanted you to find the quote you claim i said, not go all Palpatine on me.

 

[ihavenothing]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

It has now been legalised in South Africa, quite strange for a rather puritanical country.

 

[Some_Guy]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

He said it knowing that my friend would take offence to it and with the intention of stirring shit.

Also the two gay people at my school are the dirtiest pieces of shits ive ever met, they are always talking about sex toys and all this fucked up shit. They are also the porno dealers for those who are limited with dial up.

I guarantee you that those 2 people arnt the only gay people in your school. The others you wouldnt even know are gay cos they act like everyone else and are probably hiding the fact they are gay due to people like you.

It may take a while but gay marriage is bound to happen. Society will change as it always has throughout history.

I have visited the socialist paradigm... But what you speak of still doesn't make sense. You aren't left wing... You're just a disgruntled dick-head who hates the white man

Just the same as i'm not right wing.. I'm just a disgruntled dick head who hates...

A man can be possessed with so much hate, that the lines between the political scale becomes blurred.. It is therefore, not which political side he belongs to, but which side has the policy which serves his sinister interests.. Yours being "any policy which ultimately serves to demise white society".

gosh, at least my sinister intentions have a remote chance of succeeding. Yours have none :O

Let me guess, you were for the RU-486 shnazzz being transferred to the TGA? .. And so were the greens. Which makes me suspicious :|

wtf

 

[Xayma]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

It has now been legalised in South Africa, quite strange for a rather puritanical country.

Yes but that was due to constitutional issues. The courts found that it was unconstitutional and forced the government to pass legislation by a certain date. It is probably an unintended consequence of the removal of apartheid.

 

[ihavenothing]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Still, i reckon it is quite strange and I wouldn't recommend gays flocking there (like they are to Canada) to get married due to the threat of AIDS, violent crime, etc.

 

[*Minka*]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Question for blue_chameleon.

Why the fuck would anyone choose to be gay when they are treated like they are by bigots like you?

 

[*Minka*]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

I have been to South Africa and it really isn't as.....backward (I can't think of the right word I want in English) as a lot of people make it out to be.

Yeah, there are problems with crime and poverty, but it is not overly religiously conservative etc.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Question for blue_chameleon.

Why the fuck would anyone choose to be gay when they are treated like they are by bigots like you?

Im guessing from your point of view, your having a hard time trying to understand why I find certain ideas/concepts difficult to grasp, because your beliefs and views on the topic are the direct opposite of mine. Thats ok. At least I can accept that you cant understand my view point. Thats why im not really worried.
Also, im not that bothered by what somebody on an internet forum thinks of me. You dont know anything about me, all you are judging me off is my posts on here, so I guess we could agree that in terms of judging people, you are just as bad as me.

 

[townie]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

as i must have said many times before:

yes, the church invented marriage, but frankly, marriage no longer belongs to the church, or the marriage we know today, most marriages today are more civil unions performed by a celebrant. i see no problem with the church keeping the word marriage and the state keeping civil unions, and in the eyes of the law, both being equal (providing that marriage was exclusively the province of the church, i.e. those joined in a civil ceromony, could, colloquially call themselves married, as i'm sure civil unioned people would do, but in the eyes of the law not be married, and the law to actually exclusively say that it no longer has power over marriage, to the law the important thing is the civil union aspect)

the only slightly good argument against gay marriage is the adoption issue, my view, parents who want to adopt out their children should be able to specify groups of people they dont want their kids raised by (not just homosexuals, some parents may not want their children raised by fundamentalist christians, or black people, however racist they seem - yes, it seems cruel, but all u relious nuts would u rather have the baby aborted? mwahaha, got u there)

in short: u all suck, no reason against gay married if the adoption issue is discussed concurently

 

[*Minka*]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

Im guessing from your point of view, your having a hard time trying to understand why I find certain ideas/concepts difficult to grasp, because your beliefs and views on the topic are the direct opposite of mine. Thats ok. At least I can accept that you cant understand my view point. Thats why im not really worried.
Also, im not that bothered by what somebody on an internet forum thinks of me. You dont know anything about me, all you are judging me off is my posts on here, so I guess we could agree that in terms of judging people, you are just as bad as me.

You didn't answer the question.

Why would my brother, and other homosexuals, choose to be gay when people such as you want to deny them basic rights and discriminate against them because of their sexuality?

That is the question. My brother has said before that if he couldn, he'd choose to be straight because of the hate aganeda against him and other gays.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Re: should gays be allowed to marry in NSW

You didn't answer the question.

Why would my brother, and other homosexuals, choose to be gay when people such as you want to deny them basic rights and discriminate against them because of their sexuality?

That is the question. My brother has said before that if he couldn, he'd choose to be straight because of the hate aganeda against him and other gays.

Remember what the topic is about here. This is about gay marriage, not gays in general. My opinions and views are that about gay marriage, not gays in general. With that said, I have a gay cousin, and gay friends, whom I dont discriminate against. All definitions of marriage aside, I dont consider it as a basic right and never would.