Gay Marriage revived. (1 Viewer)

[ur_inner_child]

I think de Facto couples can adopt.

they can?

I think I'm mixing it up with some other facts..

Meh!

 

[tWiStEdD]

You don't choose your sexuality. You are brought up with a certain sexuality. You are this way, you are born this way. You cannot use the argument that gay parents will bring up gay children, as there is no truth to this and what is wrong with this anyway. Your parents brought you up heterosexual.

You obviously have a problem with lesbianism and homosexuality, regardless of whether you admit it or not. If you did realise the lack of choice for these people and their inability to happily live heterosexually then you may differ in opinion. You think it is easy to be gay? I don't think it is. I believe that they are just as much human beings as you are and have equal right to share the wonderful opportunity bring children up and give them love and life. Their inability to marry shows social prejudice and lack of actual understanding of the reality of these people's lives. If we are able to choose to be heterosexual, with the amount of distress and discrimination don't you think they would. How would you feel if it was wrong to be heterosexual... do you think you could marry a man? I know I couldn't marry a woman just because it was socially accepted and correct. You can't deny your heart and we shouldn't judge or discrimnate that which can't be avoided.

i dont know that there is any conclusive evidence as to wether or not you can choose your sexuality. i, as a great believer in choice and not in fate, find that everyone has a choice in anything they undertake in their lives.
i dont believe for a second that i am programmed to be heterosexual, just as i dont believe i was programmed to not be homosexual.
people are the product of their families and their peers.

i told you not to bring homophobia into this, because it is not an issue. thus i will not address your attempt to discredit me. i refer you to my first big post where i dealt with my opinions on such suppositions.

evreything you've said has been heavily emotional. i dont think i want to debate with you, simply because if i disagree you're liable to paint me as a homophobic jerk. i'm pretty pissed off that you use that sorta language/arguement after i've been quite reasonable.

As for providing reasons as to why they should be able to, this is obvious... every other human being can. Why is it, that they shouldn't be able to?

my dear girl, did you read what i wrote? i dont want to hear "because its right" or "because its fair." please support what you say or you wont get anywhere, ever.

 

[tWiStEdD]

FYI
defacto couples can adopt as individuals.
gays can adopt as individuals which bypasses the whole "but you're gay" thing. its a loophole so to speak.
married couples can adopt as a couple. that's where the "but you're gay" thing comes into it.

 

[Sophie777]

i dont know that there is any conclusive evidence as to wether or not you can choose your sexuality. i, as a great believer in choice and not in fate, find that everyone has a choice in anything they undertake in their lives.
i dont believe for a second that i am programmed to be heterosexual, just as i dont believe i was programmed to not be homosexual.
people are the product of their families and their peers.

i told you not to bring homophobia into this, because it is not an issue. thus i will not address your attempt to discredit me. i refer you to my first big post where i dealt with my opinions on such suppositions.

evreything you've said has been heavily emotional. i dont think i want to debate with you, simply because if i disagree you're liable to paint me as a homophobic jerk. i'm pretty pissed off that you use that sorta language/arguement after i've been quite reasonable.


my dear girl, did you read what i wrote? i dont want to hear "because its right" or "because its fair." please support what you say or you wont get anywhere, ever.

I also know that you have no right to suggest that you are a product only of your family and your peers. You are a very inadequate person if you can honestly suggest homosexuals choose to be this way, really, if it was a choice it would be far easier and I think many would, choose to be heterosexual. Nobody wants to be inferior, nobody wants to be excluded from society. And, my dear boy, I need not support what I say. It is you that is attempting to conclude that gay people should not marry or have children on the basis that they may be dysfunctional or grow up attracted to the same sex. It is you which does not provide evidence.

It is a fair and reasonable argument for me to suggest that homosexuals and lesbians should be able to marry because they are human beings. Nobody should be disallowed to live freely as they wish as long as it doesn't impede on the safety of others. There should be no such discriminatory laws in place. It is far easier for you to make your point as you agree with the mainstream and hence believe you are ultimately right.

Why, if it is a choice, would so many people be gay?
Why can they not marry, just because they can't have children? Why should they not marry just because they are not in man and a woman? Your argument has many holes as it relies on religious beliefs which have no substantial foundation. You cannot deny another a right you have, we should all be entitled to the same rights.

 

[Sophie777]

Your sexuality has nothing to do with fate by the way. So, are you concluding that you don't believe in genetics at all?

 

[tWiStEdD]

you make me smirk.

i dont even know if i should both replying... but okay, for kicks.

what else are you a product of?

You are a very inadequate person if you can honestly suggest homosexuals choose to be this way, really, if it was a choice it would be far easier and I think many would, choose to be heterosexual

so you're saying that homosexuals make the wrong choice? i never said that. i'm just saying that they make a choice. in reality they're no less important than anyone else. i 100% appreciate that.

It is you that is attempting to conclude that gay people should not marry or have children on the basis that they may be dysfunctional or grow up attracted to the same sex. It is you which does not provide evidence.

i believe it is gay rights activists that are arguing FOR it to be included in law (because it isnt right now.. at least not in the way they want it). Legally, the onus of proof is on you to prove that we're wrong. i'll for beyond a reasonable doubt, just to make it hard for you.

There should be no such discriminatory laws in place

i refer you again to my first post. it is not discriminatory as they've never been included.

It is far easier for you to make your point as you agree with the mainstream and hence believe you are ultimately right.

i find that when i'm the side of the majority its time to pause and reflect. i definately dont mean to say that if you're not on the side of the majority you shouldnt, because you definitely should.
i dont think i've hit the nail on the head. i've only addressed the shortcomings of gay marriage, if it were to eventuate. just because the law is alledgedly wrong, does not mean that you have the right to blind yourself to the reasons why it is not happening.

Why, if it is a choice, would so many people be gay?

i think you said love.

Why can they not marry, just because they can't have children?

No. Because, legally, when it comes to marriage there are certain rights. One of them has to do with children and the rights of the children born in a marriage to a couple or adopted by the couple. if such laws were to proceed, we would then move to lesbians wanting to have babies and gays wanting to adopt. i do not find this to be in the best interests of the child.

Your sexuality has nothing to do with fate by the way. So, are you concluding that you don't believe in genetics at all?

oh i believe in genetics. but i'm yet to see a study that tells me, conclusively, that homosexuality is encoded into our genes.

Your argument has many holes as it relies on religious beliefs which have no substantial foundation.

i'm not even slightly religious. please dont assume such things.

 

[LadyBec]

i'm all for gay marriage/civil union whatever.
On that sancity of marriage: fine, don't allow them to be married in a church, give them a civil union, or some other form of cermony, with the divorce rates so high, i don't really think that marriage is particulary sacred these days anyway.
I believe that they should have the option of some sort of union to protect their intrests and the legality of their relationship. Also, it won't really change that much. Even if we don't allows gays to marry, they'll still live together, they'll still fall in love all it does is give their relationship legal standing.

Nor do i believe that a child would be less "normal", more likely to be teased, or more likely to be gay of they had gay parents.
Normal in the sense of one mother, one father doesn't exist much these days anyway. The rate of divorce is almost 50%, and more single women are having children then ever before. At least with gay parents the child would have 2 parents.
Yes, the child of a guy couple might get teased, but everyone gets teased at some point of another, and a black child in a school of white children could be teased just as badly. It's human nature to hate/fear what is different for ourselves. Deal with it.
Finally, the idea that one is more likely to be gay as the child of gay parenst is ludacris. Even if following your arument i agreed that sexuality was a choice, (which i don't) I would have thought that they would be far LESS likely to be gay, having seen the effects first hand.

 

[tWiStEdD]

i'm surrounded by fools.
its all black and white with you guys, isnt it?

 

[paper cup]

I also know that you have no right to suggest that you are a product only of your family and your peers. You are a very inadequate person if you can honestly suggest homosexuals choose to be this way, really, if it was a choice it would be far easier and I think many would, choose to be heterosexual. Nobody wants to be inferior, nobody wants to be excluded from society. And, my dear boy, I need not support what I say. It is you that is attempting to conclude that gay people should not marry or have children on the basis that they may be dysfunctional or grow up attracted to the same sex. It is you which does not provide evidence.

It is a fair and reasonable argument for me to suggest that homosexuals and lesbians should be able to marry because they are human beings. Nobody should be disallowed to live freely as they wish as long as it doesn't impede on the safety of others. There should be no such discriminatory laws in place. It is far easier for you to make your point as you agree with the mainstream and hence believe you are ultimately right.

Why, if it is a choice, would so many people be gay?
Why can they not marry, just because they can't have children? Why should they not marry just because they are not in man and a woman? Your argument has many holes as it relies on religious beliefs which have no substantial foundation. You cannot deny another a right you have, we should all be entitled to the same rights.

sorry to intrude into your private debate.
You both have valid points, however you cannot however state that homosexuality is purely due to genetics or - 'nature vs nurture' - because it's often a mixture of both.
One must point out the increasing influence homosexuality exerts over popular culture, queer as folk, queer eye, L word etc.
There seems to be a growing trend in people turning gay to appear fashionable, especially in urban centres.
Legalising gay marriage...keeping in mind homosexuality itself was legalised fairly recently...may be too rapid for some members of society.
And keep in mind some of our conservative Asian neighbours outlaw homosexuality, for example, Singapore, Malaysia. legalising gay marriage may provoke antagonism with these nations.
I am not trying to offend anyone, so no one direct aimless insults at me.

 

[zahid]

I am and always will be against gay marriage. Simple.

 

[tWiStEdD]

thanks cherryblossom
i dont know if u read the start, but my views are basically that... and then some.

i appreciate the calming effect you've had on me you're too kind.

 

[LadyBec]

I am and always will be against gay marriage. Simple.

would you care to tell us why?
Or do you agree with the other anti-gay marriage people on here?


Note: this isn't offensive or anything, i just wanted to know if they had different arguments...

 

[paper cup]

thanks cherryblossom
i dont know if u read the start, but my views are basically that... and then some.

i appreciate the calming effect you've had on me you're too kind.

lol twisted and I recall you calling me obsene names some months ago.

 

[Xayma]

And keep in mind some of our conservative Asian neighbours outlaw homosexuality, for example, Singapore, Malaysia. legalising gay marriage may provoke antagonism with these nations.
I am not trying to offend anyone, so no one direct aimless insults at me.

That should never be used as a reason. To say that other countries find it offensive when the issue is concerned only within this nation is pointless. What would happen at during the feminist movement if some of the conservative neighbours would be provked by changing legislation?

 

[Sophie777]

Ah..... finally, someone who sees justice.

Don't you think twisted, that the likelihood of teasing you are so worried about would be decreased if there were less people with your opinion?

The best interests of the child? Who are you to suggest those in a gay relationship can't protect, care and nurture a child just as adequately. What about dysfunctional heterosexual families. It depends on the family, not on the sexuality of the parents. Also, I agree with ladybec, what is the difference? Why not legally recognise their committment to eachother?

 

[girlanachronism]

ideologically i believe very strongly in the rights of homosexuals to marry. marriage as a whole has become a secular institution and as far as i'm concerned it should remain so.

i understand however how it is a delicate issue, and while i'm not saying that everyone should be forced to embrace the idea, i find it morally wrong, as well as socially short-sighted to make it unconstitutional.

 

[Sophie777]

i'm surrounded by fools.
its all black and white with you guys, isnt it?

I'm not a fool. There is nothing I have said that is foolish.

Nor did I say homosexuality was purely due to genetics.

Twisted, you would be far easier to debate with if you weren't so obsessed with the righteousness of your own opinion. This is a very contentious issue and there are many who agree with me and many who agree with you. Neither of us can be right, it is an opinion. However, your opinion is selecting an entire group of people and disallowing them a right that you so freely experience. This is unfair, unjust and discriminatory.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't see why they can't marry.........
I'm as right wing as anyone but i have absoblutely no objection to gay marriage.

 

[girlanachronism]

Twisted, you would be far easier to debate with if you weren't so obsessed with the righteousness of your own opinion. This is a very contentious issue and there are many who agree with me and many who agree with you. Neither of us can be right, it is an opinion. However, your opinion is selecting an entire group of people and disallowing them a right that you so freely experience. This is unfair, unjust and discriminatory.

preaching to the converted here honey

I also agree with xayma's point re:feminism

 

[Sophie777]

I wasn't preaching to you though.