Help, Standard/Advanced English Question (1 Viewer)

[Aerath]

I'm almost certain that standard and advanced english do NOT get scaled differently, so don't stay in advanced thinking that if you do avg in it, it would be better than doing standard.

That is not necessarily true. Refer to Aplus's post.

If you gave it your all and got the mark you received then move across to standard. If you didn't and KNOW that you can do better, then it's up to you if you want to stay in adv or not.

That is true.

 

[Twickel]

I do not know who to trust, people on BOS or my english co-ordinator.

 

[want2bdifferent]

keep advanced both are heaps of hardwork and you are better off failing advanced then failing standard

 

[want2bdifferent]

APLUS, I thought their was no scaling difference between adv and std so why do you say that?

no there is a difference

 

[Aplus]

APLUS, I thought their was no scaling difference between adv and std so why do you say that?

If there was no difference, everyone would be doing Standard.

 

[lyounamu]

If Standard and Advanced English are scaled as a single group, why does
the same HSC mark give different scaled marks in Standard English and
Advanced English?​

This issue has been raised since 2001. Since it is likely to be raised again, the explanation will be repeated.

HSC marks and scaled marks are different marks. HSC marks are the marks released by the Board to students and are the result of the standards-setting exercise. Scaled marks are, however, based on raw HSC marks.​

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In 2 unit English all students complete a common paper (Paper 1) which counts for 40% of the total
mark. Standard and Advanced students then complete separate papers that count for 60% of the
total mark.​

​

​

The Board then uses Paper 1 to place the marks of the separate Standard and Advanced papers on the same scale so that a total (raw) examination mark can be calculated for 2 unit English.

The marks for Standard and Advanced students are deemed to be on the same scale.The Board moderates school assessments using these raw examination marks.​

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​

The raw HSC mark which is used for scaling is then calculated.​

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The raw HSC marks for the Standard and Advanced English students are combined, and scaled as a single course. A raw HSC mark yields the same scaled mark for Standard and Advanced students.

The Board aligns the raw examination marks against standards separately for Standard and Advanced students. As a result, Advanced students on a given raw mark receive a higher aligned mark than Standard students on the same raw mark.

Consequently an aligned HSC mark corresponds to different scaled marks for Standard and Advanced students. This gives the appearance that Advanced
students have been disadvantaged, but this is not true.

Source: scaling report 2007
​

 

[Twickel]

WHAT?!?!?!

Are you saying that UAI is determined by raw marks and not the aligned marks?!?!?!?!

 

[lyounamu]

If there was no difference, everyone would be doing Standard.

No, there is no difference. People do Advanced due to several reasons:

1. They might be interested in Extension courses
2. They might actually be interested in Advanced Courses
3. They might need English Advanced for certain courses (either as assumed or recommended studies, actuarial degrees puts English Advanced as recommended studies, and Speech pathology puts English Advanced as assumed knowledge
4. There might be other reasons.

Please refer to my previous post.

 

[Twickel]

So if I get a 60% raw mark in physics and the aligned mark or moderated mark comes out as 70, what does UAC use for my UAI the 60 or 70?

Im confused I thought aligned marks were used. I am so stupid, im gonna fail big time.

 

[Cerry]

The courses are actually scaled the same, but even if they weren't, you're going to be better off doing really well in a low scaling subject than absolutely crap in a high scaling subject. If you're struggling with advanced, then there's no real reason not to drop to standard. You may still end up doing the same stuff for AOS (both classes at my school did Coleridge), but the rest should be less of a struggle.

 

[lyounamu]

WHAT?!?!?!

Are you saying that UAI is determined by raw marks and not the aligned marks?!?!?!?!

Ok, bear with me when I try to explain this.

Your UAI is determined by the total scaled aggregate which is out of 500. HOWEVER, this scaled aggregate is actually sumed up by scaled mark from each unit. But the scaled mark actually comes from raw mark. Your raw mark determines your scaled mark, it's not aligned mark that determines it.

So here is an example:

Let's say, my dear friend Joe got 102/120 in Mathematics. And this raw mark is roughly equal to 93 aligned mark in Mathematics. HOWEVER, someone who got 103 or 101/120 might actually get the same aligned mark as the other one who got 102/120. It's because of the moderation procedure put forward. Even if you don't get the same raw mark, there is a chance that you will get the same aligned mark given that your raw mark is fairly close. Then if two people got 93 aligned mark with different raw mark, it would be unfair to someone else who got higher raw mark, wouldn't it be? That's why the scaling takes place ON THE RAW MARKS not from the aligned marks.

Then, they all scale your subject and then they all divide each subject into manageable units. Then they take the best 10 units and BANG! your UAI is here. (but your 2 best units of English must be counted).

 

[Twickel]

So how come SAM uses the aligned mark???

Im going to even worse if its the raw mark thats taken. UAI<50 definately.

So then would if I get 60 raw in physics is that scaled up slightly?

 

[lyounamu]

So how come SAM uses the aligned mark???

Im going to even worse if its the raw mark thats taken. UAI<50 definately.

So then would if I get 60 raw in physics is that scaled up slightly?

Why? Because in HSC result paper, we are not notified of our raw marks. We only get aligned marks.

 

[Twickel]

When I read the UAI section of this foru people are like SAMwas only 1 point of etc,, if the HSC students plug in the aligned marks thats different to the raw marks, so how is sam so accurate?

 

[lyounamu]

When I read the UAI section of this foru people are like SAMwas only 1 point of etc,, if the HSC students plug in the aligned marks thats different to the raw marks, so how is sam so accurate?

Yeah, SAM would be about 1-2 UAI off but it really depends.

In saying that SAM is not accurate at all. I cannot even see how SAM can be accurate. I have read through UAI threads and many people have got different UAI to what SAM said. But you should realise that SAM's purpose is to help you get the picture of what you might get. It is one of the better UAI estimator out there and it's more accurate than mere human brain, you know.

 

[Twickel]

So how can SAM be so accurate using the aligned marks we recieve when UAC use raw marks we never see.

Also
My subs are

SOR1
STD ENG
PHYS
CHEM
BIO
MATH

What raw marks will I need toget a UAI of 65?

Also if the UAI is based on raw marks whats the point of doing well in internals?

 

[lyounamu]

So how can SAM be so accurate using the aligned marks we recieve when UAC use raw marks we never see.

Also
My subs are

SOR1
STD ENG
PHYS
CHEM
BIO
MATH

What raw marks will I need toget a UAI of 65?

Also if the UAI is based on raw marks whats the point of doing well in internals?

As I said, SAM is not very accurate. But it does it work pretty well as an estimator. And even if they yield scaled mark out of raw mark, if you got 102/120 in maths, the scaled mark from it won't be much different from 103/120 in maths.

And on the second question, I am sorry, I cannot answer that part. Firstly, I have got absolutely no idea on that part because I just don't know what the raw marks are needed - sorry about that.

If I were to give an estimate, you probably need about average for each subject to get 65 - i.e. roughly about 70 for each subject.

 

[Aplus]

No, there is no difference. People do Advanced due to several reasons:

Well, I think there is a difference when it comes to the marks. It's a lot harder to get high marks for Standard English, even if you are like top 1% or less.

 

[kelvin92]

Well, I think there is a difference when it comes to the marks. It's a lot harder to get high marks for Standard English, even if you are like top 1% or less.

erm.. are you comparing this to Advanced english? because isnt standard english sposed to be an EASIER course? then why is it HARDER to get high marks?

 

[Aplus]

erm.. are you comparing this to Advanced english? because isnt standard english sposed to be an EASIER course? then why is it HARDER to get high marks?

It scales down since it is easy. If it was easy to get marks in easy subjects, then everyone would be taking advantage of the system.