MedVision ad

HSC 2013 MX2 Marathon (archive) (4 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.

rumbleroar

Survivor of the HSC
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
2,271
Gender
Female
HSC
2014
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Prove that:



2014'ers only.

Bonus points: Use circle geometry.
will do this tomorrow, but I think it's related to arithmetic and geometric mean (?), and with circle geo, is there something about intersecting secants and squares of a tangent (for RHS at least, not sure what's happening on LHS)?

also before I attempt (lol), is this question doable without knowing the inequalities topic in 4u? (I think it's under harder 3u?)
 

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

will do this tomorrow, but I think it's related to arithmetic and geometric mean (?), and with circle geo, is there something about intersecting secants and squares of a tangent (for RHS at least, not sure what's happening on LHS)?

also before I attempt (lol), is this question doable without knowing the inequalities topic in 4u? (I think it's under harder 3u?)
You can try to do this variant:

a + \frac{1}{a} \geq 2

via calculus if you want, but I don't think you can use calculus for a 2 variable one
 

RealiseNothing

what is that?It is Cowpea
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
4,591
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

will do this tomorrow, but I think it's related to arithmetic and geometric mean (?), and with circle geo, is there something about intersecting secants and squares of a tangent (for RHS at least, not sure what's happening on LHS)?

also before I attempt (lol), is this question doable without knowing the inequalities topic in 4u? (I think it's under harder 3u?)
It's called the AM-GM inequality, which is arithmetic mean - geometric mean. The LHS is the AM whilst the RHS is the GM. You are right it is a part of harder 3u, it is the first inequality you will learn and for MX2 definitely the most important.

To be honest you can definitely do it without prior inequalities knowledge, it might be hard though depending on your ability.

The typical proof using circle geo doesn't use tangent-secant theorem. It's a very nice proof though (sy you seen this?)
 

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

It's called the AM-GM inequality, which is arithmetic mean - geometric mean. The LHS is the AM whilst the RHS is the GM. You are right it is a part of harder 3u, it is the first inequality you will learn and for MX2 definitely the most important.

To be honest you can definitely do it without prior inequalities knowledge, it might be hard though depending on your ability.

The typical proof using circle geo doesn't use tangent-secant theorem. It's a very nice proof though (sy you seen this?)
Yep I have seen the proof, but I can't recall the specifics
 

rumbleroar

Survivor of the HSC
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
2,271
Gender
Female
HSC
2014
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

It's called the AM-GM inequality, which is arithmetic mean - geometric mean. The LHS is the AM whilst the RHS is the GM. You are right it is a part of harder 3u, it is the first inequality you will learn and for MX2 definitely the most important.

To be honest you can definitely do it without prior inequalities knowledge, it might be hard though depending on your ability.

The typical proof using circle geo doesn't use tangent-secant theorem. It's a very nice proof though (sy you seen this?)
I did it just then without circle geo, but not 100% sure if I did it right as a "prove" q, no idea how to do with circle geo though.

How do you do the maths equations?

I squared both sides and moved things over so it became a^2 + b^2 greater than or equal to -2ab, and assuming a, b are both positive or negative, it's true? (but I feel as though that's more of a show)
 

RealiseNothing

what is that?It is Cowpea
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
4,591
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

I did it just then without circle geo, but not 100% sure if I did it right as a "prove" q, no idea how to do with circle geo though.

How do you do the maths equations?

I squared both sides and moved things over so it became a^2 + b^2 greater than or equal to -2ab, and assuming a, b are both positive or negative, it's true? (but I feel as though that's more of a show)
The RHS should become 2ab not -2ab.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
2,225
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2012
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

One way I've found to do this is to consider the differentiation by first principles of





However some things need to be noted here, in how we define the number e.

If we define the number e to be



If we define e to be so, then the differentiation by first principles is applicable.

However the more common definition is that



If we accept this definition, then using differentiation by first principles in the way that I did, would be circular in nature. Because we need that limit of e, in order to find that d/dx e^x = e^x (not sure if I explained correctly).

So using the second definition.



We use a substitution so we can combine the limit of h to the limit of n, that is;



I think there are some subtleties with the last line about double limits you need to clarify..
 

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
8,390
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Problem is when I do try and engage the 2014er friendly topics no one answers my questions, nor are they trying to post questions themselves.

Can you give examples of questions you posted which were 2014er friendly? I think the amount of higher level Maths being demonstrated between you guys is intimidating to the 2014ers who are learning things for the first time, which influences whether they post or not.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

So Jensen's doesn't work, but I found a solution:

 

RealiseNothing

what is that?It is Cowpea
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
4,591
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

So Jensen's doesn't work, but I found a solution:

Alternatively:



Let and and and the inequality still holds.

So it suffices to prove the inequality for some value of C where

The easiest value of C to use is 3, so let and it's fairly easy from there.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Alternatively:



Let and and and the inequality still holds.

So it suffices to prove the inequality for some value of C where

The easiest value of C to use is 3, so let and it's fairly easy from there.
How is that a solution though? That is just noting that the LHS expression is homogenous, which is what allowed me to make the assumption the variables have sum 1. Sy did the same thing explicitly, by dividing by x+y+z.

Do you have an easy solution to the inequality itself?
 

RealiseNothing

what is that?It is Cowpea
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
4,591
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

How is that a solution though? That is just noting that the LHS expression is homogenous, which is what allowed me to make the assumption the variables have sum 1. Sy did the same thing explicitly, by dividing by x+y+z.

Do you have an easy solution to the inequality itself?
Letting seems to turn out to be an easier inequality to solve:





by polynomial division







 

RealiseNothing

what is that?It is Cowpea
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
4,591
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Though I guess it would work with but you would need to multiply/divide by a factor of 3 to get the polynomial division done easily.
 

seanieg89

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
2,662
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Though I guess it would work with but you would need to multiply/divide by a factor of 3 to get the polynomial division done easily.
Well yeah, that's what I did above. Really doesn't change the time it takes to do it.
 

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2014 4U Marathon

Can you give examples of questions you posted which were 2014er friendly? I think the amount of higher level Maths being demonstrated between you guys is intimidating to the 2014ers who are learning things for the first time, which influences whether they post or not.
I recall some:



 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)

Top