IDF Flotilla Incident Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[Scissors]

It labels them as violent, bllodthirsty, moronic extremists and the insult puts them amongst the lowest scum that inhabits the earth.

okay, where da problem @?

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Israel to UN: Flotilla participants were violent terrorists, not peace activists - Israel Insider
Israel to UN: Flotilla participants not peace activists - Israel News, Ynetnews

"What kind of Humanitarian activists demand to bypass the United Nations, the Red Cross, and other internationally recognized agencies? What kind of peace activists use knives, clubs and other weapons to attack soldiers who board a ship in accordance with international law? What kind of Humanitarian activists, some with known terrorist history, embrace Hamas, a terrorist organization that openly shuns a two state solution and calls for Israel destruction, defying conditions set by the international community and the Quartet? The answer is clear: they are not peace activists; they are not messengers of good will. They cynically use a humanitarian platform to send a message of hate and to implement violence."

From the Deputy israeli ambassador to the UN. Is that enough?

Israel: Global Jihad Linked to Flotilla Liveshots

he Israeli Army says it's identified 50 passengers on the ship with terrorist links.

It's known the flotilla of 6 ships was in part organized by the IHH group in Turkey, which reportedly has links to Al Qaeda. And three members of Yemen's Parliament, from the Islah Party, were also among the more than 600 activists detained by Israel after ships refused to stop for Israeli patrol boats and were boarded by Israeli Navy SEALs who eventually opened fire, killing 9 people. The Islah party is also said to have shadowy links to Al Qaeda. Both groups certainly support the Hamas organization in Gaza.

Please don't try to prove me wrong based off non-existent sources. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Garygaz]

Israel to UN: Flotilla participants not peace activists - Israel News, Ynetnews

Didn't refer to the activists as terrorists just questioned their merits as peace activists.


Israel: Global Jihad Linked to Flotilla � Liveshots



No direct quotes, just a written piece by a journalist.


As to your quote, some of the members of the flotilla did have links to Hamas so I don't see the problem with his statement. Biased? Yea sure you could argue that but not that absurd.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

Didn't refer to the activists as terrorists just questioned their merits as peace activists.

By referring to their supposed (and untrue) links with terrorists. israel insinuated that the activists were not activists but in fact, terrorists. perhaps not terrorists to the same degree as someone who is a paying member of al qaeda, but terrorists nonetheless.

what are you even trying to argue? if i made the case that you have similarities to KKK members and are a skinhead, does that not mean that I am really calling you a KKK member?

i can't believe we're arguing this point. not even israel would go to these lengths to deny that they believe these activists are terrorists. zionists say it out in the open. do a google search for "flotilla terrorists" and see what comes up.

if i say something is black, you'll say it's white. christ you're a dipshit.

 

[Garygaz]

tbh whatever, i'll admit maybe i was a bit over the top in defending their words, but still I think referencing to the holocaust was fucking horrid.

you are pretty pathetic to be honest, you have complete rose tinted goggles on this situation. you can only see it from one point of view. i've admitted that the israelis used excessive force, that there were mistakes made, but you haven't ONCE admitted any wrong doing by the activists. i don't see how you can deny that that mauled some of the troops to the point where they became fearful for their lives, that they went against the israelis orders under the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea, which permits the attack of neutral merchant vessels that “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.”

Were they wrong in assuming there was prohibited material? Yep. Should have they have killed the activists? clearly not. but the fact is they were using the situation for a political agenda. they could have followed the israeli orders and the aid would have been searched and distributed (like they were told). though they intentionally made their best efforts to cause conflict and make themselves political martyrs.

"Our policy is this -- we try to let in all humanitarian goods into Gaza, all peaceful commodities, food, medicine, and the like. What we want to prevent coming into Gaza are rockets, missiles, explosives and war materials that could be used to attack our civilians. This is an ongoing policy and it was the one that guided our action yesterday. We told the flotilla of ships, we said, 'You can take all your cargo, put it in our port of Ashdod, we'll just ferret out if there are any war materials, and the rest will go through'.

"We succeeded in doing this peacefully with five of the six ships. The sixth ship, the largest, which had hundreds of people on it, not only did not cooperate in this effort peacefully, they deliberately attacked the first soldiers who came on the ship. They were mobbed, they were clubbed, they were beaten, stabbed, there was even a report of gunfire. And our soldiers had to defend themselves, defend their lives, or they would have been killed.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

you are pretty pathetic to be honest, you have complete rose tinted goggles on this situation. you can only see it from one point of view. i've admitted that the israelis used excessive force, that there were mistakes made, but you haven't ONCE admitted any wrong doing by the activists.

I believe that I did - I said that perhaps they were wrong to use violent tactics, but I also have maintained that they never did any of that, and that it was propaganda put out there by the IDF. This is not hard to swallow: I outlined numerous situations where the IDF has lied before.

i don't see how you can deny that that mauled some of the troops to the point where they became fearful for their lives

I deny the first point as above, and I argue vigorously against the second point because the only reason why anyone would bring it up is in some kind of awful justification for the unneccesary and over-the-top murder of nine innocent civillians. assault is not, and should not, be punishable by death. self defense should be proportional.

that they went against the israelis orders under the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea, which permits the attack of neutral merchant vessels that “are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.”

I proved that this legal argument is questionable, and that all legal arguments in this case are questionable. That you are still trying to paint that as one-sided is absurd.

but the fact is they were using the situation for a political agenda

so?

they could have followed the israeli orders

assuming the israelis have the right to give orders in international waters. this is questionable at best.

 

[bazrah]

Australian shot on board flotilla speaks out - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I can't believe the peace activists are still trying to run with the "We didn't intend to fight line". I mean it's obvious they are liars, but they just keep making it worse and worse.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

its obvious...

 

[Richard Gilmore]

The Australian Human Rights Centre (AHRCentre) and the UNSW International Law and Policy Group invite you to,

The Fight against Terror: Practical Dilemmas in applying the Laws of War.

Prof. Abraham Bell of Bar-Ilan University (Israel) and Col. Sharon Afek, Deputy Military Advocate General for the Israel Defence Forces will present a seminar on the difficulties in applying the current international humanitarian laws in counter-terrorism operations. Since 11 September 2001, the nature of the terrorism threat to the global community has expanded both quantitatively and qualitatively to encompass private groups having a multinational presence and the capacity to inflict armed attacks against states. There is a growing awareness that the traditional laws of conflict did not foresee the new challenge of states fighting world wide terrorism networks. Difficult questions are raised as to the extent to which and the manner in which contemporary international humanitarian law applies to situations of international terrorism – and whether changes in the law may be necessary to allow effective regulation of this new form of terrorism compliance.

Time: 12:30pm
Date: Tuesday, 22nd June 2010
Cost: Free
RSVP: Friday 18/06/2010 to ahrc@unsw.edu.au

 

[bazrah]

its obvious...

Yeah glad we can atleast agree on this.

 

[ibbi00]

Congratulations. Please link me the line where I justified their actions because they insulted them.

oh that's right, it's not there.

oh that's right, you're the idiot.

oh that's right, that's why everyone keeps neg repping you.

Then why did you bring it up if it has no bearing to the argument seeing as you're 'not' using it to justify IDF's actions. And also, get over reputation level. It's an online forum ffs. And actually it was made clear that the reason I was getting neg repped was because of my religion through the comments that come along the 'rep'.

and religion is a form of culture, did you ever go to school?

There's a fine line between culture and religion. You didn't want to use the word 'religion' because it would sound hypocritical seeing as you have been displaying anti-religion sentiments on numerous occasions whereas now you're defending Judaism as a religion or culture if you will.

 

[Garygaz]

i think the neg rep is in direct correlation with making stupid posts, but hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Garygaz]

If you actually read the posts instead of jumping into a discussion like a crazed wilderbeast you would realize it didn't have anything to do with the overall discussion but rather between me and another poster. Like just fucking read instead of trying to get a cheap shot and then looking like a complete gimp.

typo

 

[44Ronin]

YouTube - what also happened on board of the freedon flotilla gaza?

The truth....contrary to Netanyahu's filthy dirty rotten lies.

As quoted from the poster:

The photos show that they didnt want to kill soldiers, rather than kill them, as the IDF spokesperson cleverly spinned it. You have proof that commandos were literally in the arms of activists, if they wanted to kill them they would have done it on the spot


If the aid workers wanted to kill these crying commandos they would have done it easly. They would have killed other soldiers by using these stupid guy's rifles but they just wanted to make them scare but the other soldiers came later and shot people randomly. Most of them were shot in the back what brave killers. if they knew that the other soldiers was going to shoot . Your cyring commandos and many others was going to be dead.

When your commandos get beaten and taken hostage by civilians armed with pipes what do you do? answer: make it look like a sign of the commandos restraint rather than weakness. Spin!
activists treating israeli commanods and protecting them

Israel is an insane, incompetent state. Even their elite "commandos" are an international joke.

 

[Optimus Prime]

you fucking moron the ones landing at the start didn't have rifles.

 

[44Ronin]

you fucking moron the ones landing at the start didn't have rifles.

Learn to read kid.

I didn't post it. It's clearly written by someone who isn't fluent in English.

 

[Optimus Prime]

yes but you said it was the truth when it wasn't at all grounded in reality.

 

[44Ronin]

yes but you said it was the truth when it wasn't at all grounded in reality.

Kid, stop trying to be an internet tough guy. You suck at it.

Besides, there are more productive and enjoyable pursuits than trolling to get forum users banned.

 

[SnowFox]

Kid, stop trying to be an internet tough guy. You suck at it.

Besides, there are more productive and enjoyable pursuits than trolling to get forum users banned.

You fucked up on BoS, prepare for a trolling/beating.

 

[Richard Gilmore]

you fucking moron the ones landing at the start didn't have rifles.

i like the way you try (and fail) to paint the IDF - the most brutal, inhuman, terrorist-like army in the world - as being an army of peace.