Indonesian spying allegations (3 Viewers)

[nerdasdasd]

How will Abbott "stop the boats" without Indonesia's co-operation?

 

[anomalousdecay]

Abbott should have hired a few engineers that can pin the source to a proxy in America/a rival nation of Indonesia.

That way, Indonesia can blame someone else haha

 

[isildurrrr1]

How will Abbott "stop the boats" without Indonesia's co-operation?

He can't and the Indonesians are already pulling out of the deal.

 

[JustDance]

How will Abbott "stop the boats" without Indonesia's co-operation?

Pretty much impossible...

 

[newcastle2012]

Even when Germany and the UK found out the US was spying on them it didn't elicit a response anywhere near this. Secondly economic importance is debatable I can assure you Indonesia would hurt so so much more than us if they weren't getting any of our minerals and do you think the Chinese government would be anywhere near hospitable to them if they messed around with their Iron imports? In my opinion definitely not and a Chinese embargo on Indonesia to allow the iron imports from Australia would absolutely devastate the Indonesian economy. Anyway Militarily they aren't that important I mean seriously if someone were to invade they would start with the east coast as the north is quite inhospitable and logistically would be a pain for very little gain if anything Indonesia gets so many more benefits from their ties with Australia than the other way around.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Even when Germany and the UK found out the US was spying on them it didn't elicit a response anywhere near this. Secondly economic importance is debatable I can assure you Indonesia would hurt so so much more than us if they weren't getting any of our minerals and do you think the Chinese government would be anywhere near hospitable to them if they messed around with their Iron imports? In my opinion definitely not and a Chinese embargo on Indonesia to allow the iron imports from Australia would absolutely devastate the Indonesian economy. Anyway Militarily they aren't that important I mean seriously if someone were to invade they would start with the east coast as the north is quite inhospitable and logistically would be a pain for very little gain if anything Indonesia gets so many more benefits from their ties with Australia than the other way around.

Indonesia getting our minerals? Did you just go full retard? If Indonesia decides to go "fuck you Australia" they can do it. Without the US' help we'd be completely fucked. Australia's defence posture is 100% based on regional partners. The only reason Australia's a good exporter of minerals is because were secure and safe, other places (most of Africa) are complete shitholes and way too costly to extract shit. China is already building up Africa for mineral exports.

China and Indonesia already hate each other, I guess someone forgot the whole attempted genocide and violence against ethnic chinese in Indonesia?

And these are retarded hypotheticals. Here's what's REALLY going to happen: Indo's shutting down cooperation on stopping the boats, shutting down many security and trade agreements. Oh guess what? They probably will stop sharing intel with us on terrorist threats against Australia. If it wasn't for Indonesian aid in the war on terror, you'd see a lot more attacks on Australian soil.

 

[newcastle2012]

I believe you are the one who went full retard and then a bit more. Australia is the mine of the world do you seriously know how rich Australia is in producing metals and gems? It is absolutely amazing and our advantages are because we are rich in them, we are close to the export destination (Asia), we are safe, we are a developed country (making transport easier) and many many more but according to you the entire industry is based purely on that we are safe? That is truly retarded and when you consider how reliant Indonesia's great Steel Industries are on our Iron extraction capacity and they import around 360000 tons of our Aluminium so I would highly highly doubt any economic changes from this and Africa will take decades and decades to get anywhere. Anyway in terms of China they are the next big thing seriously our economy is so reliant on them it isn't funny they import 73% or our iron and 26% of our coal and when China's economy slowed down by 3% ours did to by 0.7% which is absolutely massive clearly showing you have no idea of economics and when China's construction sector slowed, slowing their imports of iron from Australia the price of iron fell from US$158 to US$110 further falling to around US$80 all based on China's demand for our iron. China is our new ally in this century they are buying out masses of our industry and investing in turning Australia into the "great food bowl of Asia" oh and on that note Indonesia's populace are so reliant on us providing them with food as 25% of all the food imported into Indonesia is directly from us so if anything they would be stuffed. Also this entire event is going to earn us kudos with the Chinese and as one of the biggest up and coming nations in the Asian Century that is going to benefit us massively. Anyway those are worst case scenarios which are generally used by any half assed intelligent person. So oh no they are going to stop cooperating on the boats oh my what will Australia do? seriously asylum seekers deserve to be settled somewhere safe and shouldn't be treated as scum as shown by your opinion. Cancelling trade agreements oh no who else in the world will want our iron then? Probably the rest of the world for goodness sakes. Anyway if in your opinion we have to rely on Indonesia for security agreements then you are seriously misled and in terms of sharing terrorist threats you are absolutely fully retarded. Terrorism these days is turning even more domestic meaning international intel is losing importance and it is in fact domestic intel that is keeping us safe and could you imagine the publicity they would receive if they did that by withholding information? "Indonesia complicit in terrorist attack" or "Indonesia harbors and aids terrorists" So that would absolutely destroy any credibility of the country. Lastly Australia's defense isn't just based regionally as a little treaty called ANZUS allies us to the US and having regionally based allies does not mean we go and try and be the B**** of Indonesia. Seriously before you talk of something next time make sure you know what you are talking about seriously go out and actually research somethings instead of being lead by the Daily Telegraph. You truely went retarded there and clearly have no concept of economics of any depth at all.

 

[isildurrrr1]

I guess somebody didn't know that the US is considered a "regional partner" in terms of Australia's defense. Not like they got couple of hundreds of thousands of people stationed in Asia or have a couple of carrier strike groups sitting around or anything. China won't do shit to Indonesia and you know it, and China is FAR from being an ally. Guess you don't really know what the word "ally" means.

Sure but go ahead, be more patronizing to Indonesia, really going to help Australia smooth our transition into the Asian century right?

 

[newcastle2012]

You really don't get it do you the US is on the other side of the world and their main military capabilities are there too with most if not all of their nuclear weapons stationed there and they only have around 80000-90000 troops stationed in the Asia-Pacific region not the couple of 100000 you are talking about and the only real major US naval presence is at Pearl Harbour. China would be compelled to aid us during the case of an invasion as guess what we supply them with a ton load of metals and food which is poured into their military ton after ton and I guess you have no common sense on the matter as that would be what would happen and their behaviour in such a situation would be akin to an ally. The Asian century is primarily due to the up and coming of China and India not as much due to the smaller countries and in fact it will aid our transition as we are gaining favor with the Chinese. Look I am done with this if you seriously can not comprehend what I am saying and if you are going to be to lazy to even check your facts I am not going to stoop to the level of idiot to explain it to you.

 

[SylviaB]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/14/1100384426722.html

 

[newcastle2012]

Thanks SylviaB for that I heard of that previously to but let us see what crap isildurrrr1 can make up to back himself up now?

 

[isildurrrr1]

Thanks SylviaB for that I heard of that previously to but let us see what crap isildurrrr1 can make up to back himself up now?

No shit they would try and bug our embassy. Not like we didn't bug the Chinese embassy in canberra right? Getting caught trying to tap the phones of a national leader and his wife is a big fuck up. Sure newcastle, be more patronizing to indonesia, good luck stopping all those boats and creating more animosity between Australia's closest neighbour and potential military threat.

 

[newcastle2012]

My gosh you never stop do you? All your points so far have been proven false or irrelevant. Anyway quite hypocritical how you eliminate China's threat to Indonesia but all of a sudden Indonesia threatening Australia oh how hypocritical is that which is only exceeded by the Indonesian government. Did you not even read the article or hey you will just sweep that under the rug because it doesn't support your argument now does it? Seriously educate yourself properly before you state anything and I think the following quote is very apt for you particularly the second part "wise men talk because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something." Seriously this thread is full of you making up things like oh guys the USA has a couple of hundred thousand personnel in the region when the fact is they have approximately 85000 personnel in total with 30000 of them posted to South Korea which will not be going anywhere while North Korea threatens them. Seriously I would be happy to have an intelligent conversation with people but you are in no stretch intelligent as shown through the constantly made up crap which any other person except you can see is stupid. Goodbye isildurrrr1 enjoy talking crap I am not going to even give your made up crap the pleasure of being utterly dis proven in every way, shape and form. I know I am right and frankly I am not going to argue against someone who is as narrow minded and immature as you.

 

[isildurrrr1]

My gosh you never stop do you? All your points so far have been proven false or irrelevant. Anyway quite hypocritical how you eliminate China's threat to Indonesia but all of a sudden Indonesia threatening Australia oh how hypocritical is that which is only exceeded by the Indonesian government. Did you not even read the article or hey you will just sweep that under the rug because it doesn't support your argument now does it? Seriously educate yourself properly before you state anything and I think the following quote is very apt for you particularly the second part "wise men talk because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something." Seriously this thread is full of you making up things like oh guys the USA has a couple of hundred thousand personnel in the region when the fact is they have approximately 85000 personnel in total with 30000 of them posted to South Korea which will not be going anywhere while North Korea threatens them. Seriously I would be happy to have an intelligent conversation with people but you are in no stretch intelligent as shown through the constantly made up crap which any other person except you can see is stupid. Goodbye isildurrrr1 enjoy talking crap I am not going to even give your made up crap the pleasure of being utterly dis proven in every way, shape and form. I know I am right and frankly I am not going to argue against someone who is as narrow minded and immature as you.

You seriously think 30,000 US troops in SK is going to be anything more than a speedbump to NK? Dude, everybody in 2nd inf knows they'll get rolled if NK decides to cross over. US has the force projection to be ANYWHERE within 48 hours. Guess somebody missed the 700k boots on the ground during the first gulf war. There's a reason why Carrier strike groups are pretty much a mini-military providing their own air power, logistics, boots on the ground, etc etc.

Just keep harping like how the current government is and how it's a good way to improve relations to one of Australia's most vital ally and friend, especially in terms of regional security issues.

 

[eastpak]

No fighting, girls...

 

[newcastle2012]

Seriously just shut up isildurrrr1 I am really tired of you. YOU ARE WRONG, I AM RIGHT seriously get over yourself you cannot win look at all your points they have been comprehensively dis proven and I highly doubt you are anywhere near capable of an intelligent conversation esspecially with trying to say that Indonesia is a much more important friend than China seriously get a grip of yourself you crap talker.

 

[obliviousninja]

No fighting, girls...

lel.

 

[hawkrider]

You two need to stop fighting right now. BOS isn't the best place to discuss these issues, and I believe that many people would agree with me. I may not be an expert with these topics, but what I will say is that we have to respect each others opinions, rather than attacking the different sides. Seriously, there's no need to go full on at each other.

And frankly @newcastle2012, it is when you said that you have the right argument, I think you're the narrow-minded and immature one since you refuse to listen to others opinions regardless of what they were trying to convey. But don't take what I said personally, it's just an observation.

 

[newcastle2012]

Haha it has gone to far in my opinion. Anyway HawkRider I am happy to listen to others opinions provided that they are actually TRUE and not made up crap. I am happy to have an intelligent conversation with people but it gets on my nerves when people think they have to make things up to protect their ego. Please look at some of the claims he has made and then look at what I have said. If you want research them they will tell you the exact same thing I have said.
p.s. you can look back through the thread to see it wasn't I who instigated the personal attacks

 

[hawkrider]

Understandable, you seemed like an intelligent individual who stands up for themselves and their beliefs and values so good on you.

Looking back through the thread, it actually appears that you were right, the guy that attacked you did make up BS.

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