Legal Advice - Property Issue (1 Viewer)

[santaslayer]

Hey everyones.

This is an issue I'm experiencing at the moment, I know these people fairly well so I don't really want to be an arsehole and throw a whole heap of legislation/case law in their faces. I guess I am asking for advice without having to do so? The issue is as follows:

1) I am a student of a sporting club.

2) I was personally asked by a Friend (M), who is also a member of the club, if I wanted anything bought back overseas. I said yes, and asked her to bring back $50 AUD worth of items. All this is done via email communication, I still have records of it.

3) The School (club, whateva), also asked her to bring back a whole heap of items so they could sell it for a profit in future.

4) Friend came back to Australia, handed me the items.

5) School confronts me (and a few other of my friends) and tells me that all items are now property of the school. If I intend to purcahse these items, i would have to buy it off the school at the price the school sets. (Jacked up by a lot, duh).


Like, wtf? I told the person off. (who was stupidly, acting for the school), and told him that my initial email was the valid document. It was agreed that the price was $50 AUD for all items I ordered and that taking the items away from me and claiming it to be school property, selling it off to me again for a jacked up price was wrong.

Now I know the person personally, and don't really want to act like a dickhead in front of him, because he is only acting on the school's behalf, but what can I do my learned friends? Do I really have to call the p[olice up for such a stupid matter?


Thanks. peoples.

 

[LaraB]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Hey everyones.

This is an issue I'm experiencing at the moment, I know these people fairly well so I don't really want to be an arsehole and throw a whole heap of legislation/case law in their faces. I guess I am asking for advice without having to do so? The issue is as follows:

1) I am a student of a sporting club.

2) I was personally asked by a Friend (M), who is also a member of the club, if I wanted anything bought back overseas. I said yes, and asked her to bring back $50 AUD worth of items. All this is done via email communication, I still have records of it.

3) The School (club, whateva), also asked her to bring back a whole heap of items so they could sell it for a profit in future.

4) Friend came back to Australia, handed me the items.

5) School confronts me (and a few other of my friends) and tells me that all items are now property of the school. If I intend to purcahse these items, i would have to buy it off the school at the price the school sets. (Jacked up by a lot, duh).


Like, wtf? I told the person off. (who was stupidly, acting for the school), and told him that my initial email was the valid document. It was agreed that the price was $50 AUD for all items I ordered and that taking the items away from me and claiming it to be school property, selling it off to me again for a jacked up price was wrong.

Now I know the person personally, and don't really want to act like a dickhead in front of him, because he is only acting on the school's behalf, but what can I do my learned friends? Do I really have to call the p[olice up for such a stupid matter?


Thanks. peoples.

that's weird... they have no reason really to make you pay for it since you had pre-arranged it all... especially if you have documentation of the arrangement..

In most these kinds of situations - best thing seems to be to threaten to involve police and/or lawyers and usually they back down... saves the hassle of actually having to involve them... But if it comes down to it, perhaps it would be better to seek proper legal advice before getting the police involved? Because if for some reason the school has a right to do what they're doing, it's going to annoy the police that they wasted time on it, not to mention make you look bad.

Even if you just get free advice from uni - i'm not sure what stuff you have available but i know that we get free legal advice via the union so i'm assuming you'd have the same - it's probably going to be more effective than calling the police. Especially as it's not exactly an enormous amount of money involved, i don't see it being a highly prioritsed matter for them to look into...

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

You are the freakin law student! Answer your own question.

Unless you can prove somew kind of oral contract all the goods are now in possession of the school. Since they are in possession of the chattels you have to prove that you have an immidiate right to possession.

 

[santaslayer]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

You are the freakin law student! Answer your own question.

Unless you can prove somew kind of oral contract all the goods are now in possession of the school. Since they are in possession of the chattels you have to prove that you have an immidiate right to possession.

Maybe you should read the post again before you attempt to respond.

Just because I am a law student does not mean anything. I am not kingshit. (yet).


EDIT: How on earth are the items rightfully property of the school when this was a private, prearranged agrreement wheredanton? I do have proof. That is not the essense of the question. Read again. Law student.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

The goods you asked your friend to bring back are yours. Simply refuse to give them to the sporting club.

If the school has taken them off you and is refusing to return them, send the relevant member of the school polite e-mail stating something like the following:


Dear Sir,

My friend X is a member of the sporting club. I recently organised for her to purchase some goods on my behalf on her trip overseas. The school also organised for her to do the same. Both were separate agreements.

My friend carried out the agreements, purchasing goods on behalf of both myself and the school and returned home.

The school has taken the goods it asked for from my friend, as agreed. However it has also taken possession of the goods purchased on my behalf. The school has refused to return the goods to me, and has insisted that if I wish to obtain the goods, I must purchase the goods from the school.

At present therefore, the school is in possession of my property. I would appreciate if you could arrange for the school to return my property as soon as possible. The items include XYZ.

I reiterate that I had a private agreement with my friend X for the purchase of these goods, and I have e-mail records and her affirmation to evidence this. As such, I have an immediate right to possession of the goods. Should the school refuse to return my property, this would constitute detinue and I may bring an action to recover the goods. It would be best for all concerned if such measures are avoided.

Please consider this a formal request for the return of my goods. Please also note that the use or selling of my goods would constitute conversion and I may bring an action against the school to recover the expenses involved, including any rise in price due to unavailability here.

Regards,
[Santaslayer]

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

EDIT: How on earth are the items rightfully property of the school when this was a private, prearranged agrreement wheredanton? I do have proof. That is not the essense of the question. Read again. Law student.

I didnt say the goods were rigtfully property of the school...did I? I said you have to prove that you have an immdiate right to possession of the named chattels!

 

[MiuMiu]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

I think you're a little bit misdirected wheredanton, you're going on about things that aren't relevant. From what I understand the goods are physically in the possession of Santa, the school just wants them back or wants him to pay.

Santa just call the boss of the school and explain the situation. If they persist in being jerks explain that you have emails which support your story and you will take it to the cops.

That will probably scare them enough, or at least make them give them to you because no one likes dealing with the police.

 

[Frigid]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

i would probably tell the sporting club/school, so sue me.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Do not call the police. As I said the first and best thing to do is to make a formal request for your goods back. They are much more likely to yield to your request if you (politely) put it in writing and back it up with an awareness of your legal rights. (Additionally you have a firm right of action for detinue.)

If they don't have your goods, but are asking for them, then politely tell them the situation, and that you stand by your position. The ball is then in their court and they won't pursue it. (I doubt that they would go and seek legal advice for something worth $50.)

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

I think you're a little bit misdirected wheredanton, you're going on about things that aren't relevant. From what I understand the goods are physically in the possession of Santa, the school just wants them back or wants him to pay.

If the school is in possession of the chattels then he has to prove a right to immidiate possession. If santa is in possession of the chattles I have no idea what he is worried about. He has actual possession, placing the burden on the school to prove they have an immdiate right to possession. If the school believes they have an immidate right to possession they can bring an action for conversion and detinue and gets some damages.

I'm not sure if they can even sue in conversion or detinue because they never had possession in the first place. They can't claim an immidiate right to possession by arguing that they bailed out the goods to santa mainly because they were never in possession in the first place. Also I think I read somewhere that you can't sue for detinue if your immdiate right to possession originates from a contractual right.

I think common sense suggests that legal action is not worth 50 dollars.

I think Moonlight and I are a little confused as to who has possession. You will note Moonlight adressed the question as if the school had possession. I know I did because I saw no problem if Santa had possession.

If the School had some kind of contract with the friend and she gave the goods to Santa then they might be able to sue her for breach of contract. I'm not really sure of the contractual issues in santas problem.

 

[MiuMiu]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

On fourth reading (yes, fourth) I am confused as to whether or not Santa has the items (which Im going to call pornos, cos he won't tell us what they are so I can only assume they're illicit )

He said he was handed the items, but didn't say whether or not they were taken from him.

 

[BillytheFIsh]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Just say "It's my goat porn and you're not gonna take it from me!"

But seriously, if you have whatever it is, (which is how I read it) then I'm with fridgy - Simply invite them to pursue their perceived legal rights in whatever way they see fit.

 

[ManlyChief]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

i don't understand where the school is coming from on this one - is there something missing from the scenario? because it seems to me that it's all a little irrational, even more irrational than schools normally are ...

what are these items? priceless ming vases or something?

let them sue you. bring it on.

 

[santaslayer]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Fark. Sorry people. Am a disgrace to law students. Shall confirm:

I was handed the pornos but they were taken back by the school, so I do not have current posession of the goods. They do.



As I have stated earlier, I didn't want to go full out on the person acting for the school. He is a personal friend. So a whole list of legislation and case law examples weren't going to help the situation or our friendship.

The letter Moonlight suggested is perfect. Am stupid and confused as to why I didnt think of it earlier.

I also agree with Manly, the school is quite irrational. The school is only out to make money.


The pornos are in fact head/body protection and a set of boxing gloves for a sport called San da or San Shou, which is, in essence, sort of kickboxing without the use of knees. This sport branches from the major Chinese sport called Wushu.



Hmmm...imagine a school that used pornos as equipment...for a sport..


sorry for late response...BOS was acting up for me earlier.


Thanks, can always count on BoS legal eagles.

 

[hfis]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Post their response to the letter, if you end up sending it.

 

[MiuMiu]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Yeah I'd be really interested to see what happens.....can your friend who brought the stuff back for you back you up on this one?

 

[santaslayer]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

friend can def back me up, i have her confirmation.

but bad news to u legal eagles...\no case


i pussied out coz i found out that the person acting for the school (a very good friend) is actually highly involved in this matter as well. cant do anything about it...


i let the case slide and merely emailed them a letter indicating that i was aware of my rights. i had no other choice really...it was just a reminder that the shit they were doing was wrong, i was right, they suck, i win, they lose.....

i told them what they were doing wrong and how detrimental it was for the skool as a whole...am waiting for a reply...

didnt want to blow everything out of proportion...this is the difference between the theory of justice and its practical application...not everything turns out well (legally)...i learnt that shit somewhere in my law course...damn!






ie, i found goods of similar quality at a fraction of the price in aus!!...so no action...would be stupid..

 

[MiuMiu]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

Oh Santa, don't cop out, fight for your rights!

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

That's good news - if you found the goods for a cheaper price here, it would be silly pursuing it.

 

[santaslayer]

Re: Personal Legal-ish issue

UPDATE la...

So I sent an email remninding the school of what they were doing. Legal points that MS posted were also bought up. Just not with all the jargon rubbish. This is a friend I'm talking to! (who is only acting for the school, sort of like an agent)

The friend, having had experience with some business law (through his accounting major) attempted to mess with me and talk about CONSIDERATION.

He noted that the private agreement I had with Friend M was lacking in consideration since there was nothing of benefit to my friend M.

I reminded him that this was not intended to be a contract because:

1) It was actually an AGREEMENT rather than a CONTRACT.

2) A contract required both parties, (Friend M and me), to have an intention to create legal relations. This was not present.

I told him that one of the most important things for detinue to be successful was for me to prove that I had a greater immediate right to the possessions concerned than the school did. This is evidenced by the emails and Friend X's personal admissions.

I also emphasised the fact that the emails I was posting only acted as a mere reminder of things the school was doing wrong. Not a formal request for the goods back. It was my way of avoiding confrontation with him, but at the same time, remind the school that not everyone was ignorant about the law.

The school ditched email communication and talked to me one on one.

The school offered me the goods back at the original price. The friend said sorry.

I refused to accept the goods, (since I found better ones at a lower cost in australia).

I told the friend that if I had accepted the goods back, the goods would remind me of this incident. Something that will be detrimental to our friendship.

The friend agreed. We both said sorry to each other. I bought my equipment from rebel sport yesterday. had fun. lalalalala

the end.