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Redfern Racial Rioting (2 Viewers)
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Egg_666
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OMG, Those people that encouraged the children were the children themselves... ITS MOB MENTALITY, when they see others doing it they get involved... you know why? because they are angry too... the parents WOULD have forbidden it (as you admitted later on, they would ahve been mortified) so who is left, who encouraged the children? THEMSELVES, through mob mentality... that sweeps up all those in it... Just like the crusaders killed and pillaged cos everyone else was doing it...Originally posted by poloktim
There are people who encouraged the children! I'm pretty sure that encourage and forbid are antonyms.
i am not, OF COURSE, and i'm truly upset you didnt see this, arguing the meaning of the word riot and the thought process behind its conception... I am arguing the USE of the word to describe what happenned... but i think it is simply the connotation that i am arguing with... as i would see riot as evil and pointless whislt this action had a point and sentiment behind it... its just another example of media coverage that sways the opinions of people... just like "Illegal Immigrants" and "Queue Jumpers" those the difference there is those words are plain wrong...
of course not, but try and find that "person", if he/she exists, and is not a minor.. and you may get one or two...
same point... if your not trying to punish them, what do you want from it... considering that we have already established that few adults would have been involved in encouraging them...
ok so maybe the use of "RATHER" was too weak... i wasnt thinking of that part of the sentence when i was saying... "i'd rather blame the government", your picking me out for a word....
SO OK, let me edit
I WANT TO SEE THE GOVERNMENT BLAMED NOT THE PEOPLE, AS THE ROLE IS THE PRIMARY REASON FOR THIS ISSUE
better?
we are still left we the same thing but nevertheless... we move on...
I am justifying the riots... yes...
you are saying you want something to be done.... BUT if it wasnt for those riots we wouldnt even be here discussing this... if it wasnt for those riots you would still be sipping coffee whilst reading the other stuff in this forum...
if it has nothing else but bring this issue to light, it has achieved something very important for those people, putting their lives at risk...
where does that come from? if you read my posts i write time and time again that i respect the police for their role and feel sorry that the are receiving the crossfire of crappy government policy and upset aboriginals...
as i have said... you treat badly those who treat you badly... tis human nature... but its a never ending cycle when it comes to the police and redfern aboriginals... cops treat the kids badly cos they reckon the kids will be like the parents, kids treat the cops badly because they get treated like they are their parents... and they have seen how their parents treat the cops...
its doesnt end... so i dont blame the cops at all... and salute them for their extremely brave effort...but i have said that all before so i doubt you will pick it up now..
this single incident is indicative of the issue.... learn from it and we can solve the issue...
hahaha thats stupid... not only do you misquote even tho my actual words were right in front of you.... but you turn that into an argument...
sigh... I justify the riots... or at least am trying to.... i am not an aboriginal and you will never find me rioting on the street (in the foreseable future)... you know why? becuase i have the lifestyle that allows me to keep within the laws that govern this country... i can sit back on my computer chair, type into the computer and say things that i want to say....
I cant even begin to imagine what their life must be like... and because of that i cannot riot with them...
Why? Because i am justifying their criminal behaviour (which it is, and i freely admit that) on the fact that their lifestyle is so bad and in such a state, with no potential and no ability to get out of it, that what they sacrificed (the laws) was worth less than what the attempted to gain (international recognition)... for me this issue is not directly affecting me... and therefore does not justify criminal behaviour on my part...
but for them, we must look and see that they have it extremly tough and that sympathy should overide or demand for justice for this event...
My beliefs on public schooling is that its not the fault of the teacher principal or anyone else that they themselves are disheartened but we must shift the blame to the people deserving of it... the government... like i have said before... there are reasons thigns happen and things happen for a reason... so dont push this crap off as excuses but as reasons...
once again thats not what i'm getting at... the reason for the riot is bad government policy... therefore the riot is targetting the effects of that... one of which is the police-aboriginal hostility
so you admit it wasnt the parents primarily?
its a sign of frustration... i am not looking to win an argument all the time... but when i get frustrated i let it out... please read what i write a few times over... so that you dont misunderstand...
no he wasnt "i think we all feel sorry for the lad and angry at the riotingOriginally posted by poloktimI believe that person was speaking for themselves.
and this threads about the rioting"
we arent all angry at the rioting,... and the "we all" was suggesting he was trying to speak for everyone, correct me if i'm wrong...
i liked that first line, nicely poetic although it could've been put nicer...
anyway... when i was talking about people needing to steal or commit a crime... i was talking about the kid, not the riots... but nevertheless it works here... where the crime weighs less on the blind scales of justice than the entire issue of poorly treated aboriginals...
dont you worry i will (and i will be old enough if they dont hold the election before 19th of march...)
i say the riots achieved in getting this issue to the wider public (and of course most importantly to this board) and whilst the poor kids were put in danger... i think they have more to gain from this than they have to lose... or at least in their opinion...
i will later... although i have done it in the posts before if you look for it... closer to the middle... or rather right after where you found this quote
and i wont respond to ozgirls crap... thers no point... most people know the truth their and for those like ozgirl who dont.... they could never possibly udnerstand the idea of poverty... and its effects...
bbl
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poloktim
\(^o^)/
Oh, this is going to be ever so fun.
Now, onto the point. Why should the police receive the crossfire? They're only doing their job. Maybe the rioters should show some understanding to the police before expecting some from them in return. Instead of throwing fire and explosives at them. That could assist in patching things up.
I will never find you rioting on the street? Why not, it seemed to work so well for them? You can't justify something that shouldn't be justified. You said you will never riot, so why should these people? You then go to explain that you have things in life the Redfern people don't, that's true. But what if you still want to prove a point, and nobody is listening? Will you riot and have someone like you try to justify it? Or will you attempt to keep trying the legal methods? Hugerstrike maybe?
You shouldn't need to riot with them, because it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Ok. You even admitted that it was criminal behaviour. Good, we agree on that too. But it shouldn't be justified. It happened, it should never have happened. Now the government, instead of forking out money to attempt to fix the block, will need to fork out money to fix Redfern station (a major station on the CityRail network), compo needs to be paid to the police who were injured. This money doesn't just appear out of their arses. The government doesn't have an unlimited supply of money, going around and forcing them to spend it on other things is a surefire way to be pushed further back in the line of getting some.
If you want police-block hostility to stop, then, going back to what I said before, you need effort put in from both sides. Both sides need to compromise.
About you voting the other way. I feel that as soon as that government is elected, you'll just start blaming them as well.
You admitted later on there were some adults, I'm thinking more than the one or two that you suggested. They must not get away or they will use the children again.
If you don't want to use the word riot because of the emotive overtone, then just don't use it. Don't tell us you're not using it, because chances are we won't care.
I'm thinking more than two. But already been past this, so next.
It is the same point. I was stressing it. I want the children to be educated on what happens when they riot. It means the government has to pay money to fix things they've destroyed, money which could've gone to making their lives more desireable, quicker than it would be able to now.
I'm "picking you out for a word" because that word happens to dictate the entire meaning of the sentence. One which you editied poorly too. It means the exact same thing as it did with rather. But, maybe that's just you sweeping the wrongdoings of those handfull of adults under the carpet.
You're right. The riots did cause us here to argue. However what else did they do. Most of the people on the forums aren't very happy with the damage done. I've seen posts about people who want all extra assistance that the Redfern residents get to be cancelled because they rioted. I can understand where such mentality comes from. Believe it or not, a lot of people actually think the same way. A great deal of good the riots did. It just turned people against them. I doubt that was the desired result.
Aboriginal is an adjective. You mean Aborigines (a slight correction of your English to avoid people being offended).
Now, onto the point. Why should the police receive the crossfire? They're only doing their job. Maybe the rioters should show some understanding to the police before expecting some from them in return. Instead of throwing fire and explosives at them. That could assist in patching things up.
I did pick it up. But you're still justifying the mistreatment of the police. So maybe you should pick it up as well.
We can learn from it, and we can solve the issue. But it takes both sides to do so. In order to solve the issue the Redfern residents and the government need to work together. Destroying government property is probably a way to promote understanding, and I doubt the government will do much anytime soon. The voters need to calm down after the issue too.
I didn't misquote you, I exaggerated and it was intentional.
I will never find you rioting on the street? Why not, it seemed to work so well for them? You can't justify something that shouldn't be justified. You said you will never riot, so why should these people? You then go to explain that you have things in life the Redfern people don't, that's true. But what if you still want to prove a point, and nobody is listening? Will you riot and have someone like you try to justify it? Or will you attempt to keep trying the legal methods? Hugerstrike maybe?
You shouldn't need to riot with them, because it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Ok. You even admitted that it was criminal behaviour. Good, we agree on that too. But it shouldn't be justified. It happened, it should never have happened. Now the government, instead of forking out money to attempt to fix the block, will need to fork out money to fix Redfern station (a major station on the CityRail network), compo needs to be paid to the police who were injured. This money doesn't just appear out of their arses. The government doesn't have an unlimited supply of money, going around and forcing them to spend it on other things is a surefire way to be pushed further back in the line of getting some.
Mate, listen to yourself. You're blaming the Department of Education and Training for something that they have no control over. Get a clue! Although I don't Andrew Refshauge, he isn't resposible for the state of the block. Get off your high horse, and point your crusade against the government at the departments that could be considered resposible! Really, you're losing credability.
The NSW Police force in Redfern have been bending over backwards to try and bridge differences with people from the block. The fact the boy died was tragic. I hope the family can grow stronger from this incident, and they have my deepest condolences. But if a). he was actually escaping from police who were persuing him or b). saw a police car and paniced, then maybe he himself had a problem with the police.
If you want police-block hostility to stop, then, going back to what I said before, you need effort put in from both sides. Both sides need to compromise.
I know it wasn't. Parents aren't that stupid.
Keep your frustration to witty zings. Questioning intellect isn't a nice thing to do. It makes people think you're not nice.
The "we all" could mean that s/he was speaking for his/her family, friends, self. Don't assume everything with we means everyone. Also, it was an opinion.
It could've, but it wasn't.
But we're not talking about the plight of the Aborigines. We're talking about the riot in Redfern on Sunday night. The crime, provoked or not, is a crime nevertheless. Allowing people to commit crimes breaks the fabric of our judicial system, because justice is blind, everyone, no matter what race, should be punished equally. That's the whole premise behind blind justice mate.
The children should never have been put in danger. Never. I don't agree with anyone who says "but it was necessary," because it wasn't. Endangering children in such activities is never ever necessary.
About you voting the other way. I feel that as soon as that government is elected, you'll just start blaming them as well.
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Egg_666
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this may continue forever if you keep pointing out stupid little nitpicky things
therefore i am going to cut the debate down to the major points... if you feel i have missed any please feel free to point them out
by doing this i hope to cut out some of the pointlessness in this thread...
1. Riots: Criminal or Justifiable
This contains most of the issues including (a) the hatred of the police by the block, and what part do the police play (b) the damage done, (c) who provoked the kids and their position in this (d) the effect of the riots
2. The Solution: Turn the other cheek and make the first move or joint effort on the side of both parties
I think these are the important bits... i will address them later... just am very tired right now
therefore i am going to cut the debate down to the major points... if you feel i have missed any please feel free to point them out
by doing this i hope to cut out some of the pointlessness in this thread...
1. Riots: Criminal or Justifiable
This contains most of the issues including (a) the hatred of the police by the block, and what part do the police play (b) the damage done, (c) who provoked the kids and their position in this (d) the effect of the riots
2. The Solution: Turn the other cheek and make the first move or joint effort on the side of both parties
I think these are the important bits... i will address them later... just am very tired right now
poloktim
\(^o^)/
Really, the main points I was pointing out:
i). If children are caught in such a situation, they should never, ever be encouraged to continue. They were. What does this say about some community members, and why isn't anything being done to those who did encourage them. All adults who encouraged the children need to be arrested and thrown away. I have no sympathy for any adult who would send a child out to do something like that. They are the lowest. If you disagree with that, maybe you should re-evaluate your own morals, because quite simply, anyone who agrees with encouraging children to do such dangerous behaviour doesn't deserve much at all (an empty gaol cell is good enough).
1). Riots: criminal. As mentioned above, nothing can justify children being involved in such acts.
Children should be educated on how that isn't appropriate, and adults who encouraged it should be hauled out like garbage.
The police are doing their job, and have bent over backwards to attempt to bridge differences between them and the block. There are people in the block who think that they shouldn't need to do anything. Thankfully however, there are people who understand it's a joint effort.
The damage done is going to be costly. The government isn't made out of money, so where is money going to come from to clean up Redfern and the block? Perhaps one should be fixed up and the other left until more funds arrive. I'd like to see the block fixed up first, however the government has the money and the power, and I would understand if they do things differently.
The children were obviously provoked by the death of their mate. Education needs to be introduced to teach them that "an eye for an eye, and the world goes blind." Also tell them the cost of repairing the damage they've done, and how much the government actually has for the year.
The effect of the riots has left a lot of people, especially commuters of Redfern station, very, very distraught and angry. Not the best way to get someone's attention I can assure you.
2). The solution is easy. Punish the adults who encouraged the children, but have a joint effort to attempt to work things out with the rest of the community. Have the community understand it'll take work on both sides.
I'm picking out stupid nitpicky things? I corrected you on your English once (because it could be considered offensive, and you seem like the kind of person who tries extra hard not to be considered racist, as if you're afraid of what other people think of you), and just rebutted your arguments.
Though I think you only said I was being stupid and nitpicky because you're too lazy to argue the entire post. Again, you didn't want to be thought of that way.
i). If children are caught in such a situation, they should never, ever be encouraged to continue. They were. What does this say about some community members, and why isn't anything being done to those who did encourage them. All adults who encouraged the children need to be arrested and thrown away. I have no sympathy for any adult who would send a child out to do something like that. They are the lowest. If you disagree with that, maybe you should re-evaluate your own morals, because quite simply, anyone who agrees with encouraging children to do such dangerous behaviour doesn't deserve much at all (an empty gaol cell is good enough).
1). Riots: criminal. As mentioned above, nothing can justify children being involved in such acts.
Children should be educated on how that isn't appropriate, and adults who encouraged it should be hauled out like garbage.
The police are doing their job, and have bent over backwards to attempt to bridge differences between them and the block. There are people in the block who think that they shouldn't need to do anything. Thankfully however, there are people who understand it's a joint effort.
The damage done is going to be costly. The government isn't made out of money, so where is money going to come from to clean up Redfern and the block? Perhaps one should be fixed up and the other left until more funds arrive. I'd like to see the block fixed up first, however the government has the money and the power, and I would understand if they do things differently.
The children were obviously provoked by the death of their mate. Education needs to be introduced to teach them that "an eye for an eye, and the world goes blind." Also tell them the cost of repairing the damage they've done, and how much the government actually has for the year.
The effect of the riots has left a lot of people, especially commuters of Redfern station, very, very distraught and angry. Not the best way to get someone's attention I can assure you.
2). The solution is easy. Punish the adults who encouraged the children, but have a joint effort to attempt to work things out with the rest of the community. Have the community understand it'll take work on both sides.
I'm picking out stupid nitpicky things? I corrected you on your English once (because it could be considered offensive, and you seem like the kind of person who tries extra hard not to be considered racist, as if you're afraid of what other people think of you), and just rebutted your arguments.
Though I think you only said I was being stupid and nitpicky because you're too lazy to argue the entire post. Again, you didn't want to be thought of that way.
Egg_666
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honestly... your right... i was too lazy to argue the entire post... too tired... have had very little sleep last week... but why argue crap... you "corrected my english" more than once... we had diverted quite a bit... and i just wanted to get rid of the crap...
i try extra hard not to be racist because i have feelings for those who i am tlaking about... and i dont want to offend them...
will come back and argue the stuff you have talked about
i try extra hard not to be racist because i have feelings for those who i am tlaking about... and i dont want to offend them...
will come back and argue the stuff you have talked about
A lot of you guys seem to tip-toe around the fact that the 'riot' was certainly divided on racial lines. A lot of you who dont, only offer solutions for the teens that would suit a non-indigenous Australian.
Lets call a spade a spade, Aboriginals are very different to most of us, we dont fully understand them. Solutions like 'fix redfern' wont fix the problem, which is two peoples in two worlds with two sets of very different values, or at least having their values totally trampled over and broken that they constantly appear in a very depressing, defeatist and confusing life.
Offering western solutions is what we got wrong the first time, it was called the policy of ASSIMILATION.
Lets call a spade a spade, Aboriginals are very different to most of us, we dont fully understand them. Solutions like 'fix redfern' wont fix the problem, which is two peoples in two worlds with two sets of very different values, or at least having their values totally trampled over and broken that they constantly appear in a very depressing, defeatist and confusing life.
Offering western solutions is what we got wrong the first time, it was called the policy of ASSIMILATION.
Egg_666
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we cant have a nature reserve in redfern...
the solution for aborigines now is simply the same as any orthodox religion that lives in australia...
however... we need to help them reach that stage...
and we have been neglecting that duty... and the riots are the outcry as a result of that neglecy
the solution for aborigines now is simply the same as any orthodox religion that lives in australia...
however... we need to help them reach that stage...
and we have been neglecting that duty... and the riots are the outcry as a result of that neglecy
poloktim
\(^o^)/
I agree with everything that Egg_666 has said except for the last part. I don't think the riots were an outcry as a result of the negligence, moreso a form of revenge for their lost mate (the bloke who died on the fence). People may have noticed the negligence from the riot, but I feel that the cause was more anger and frustration over a lost mate and vengence to the government and police for "letting it happen."
Having a reserve in Redfern is unfeasable. The best way to help the people living there is to clean up, rebuild houses etc. I fear however the budget the government will set aside to do this, however, will be cut short so they can pay for repairs on government property, and compo for injured police. Also, hopefully an investigation into the riot starters and those whom encouraged it to continue, so as the adults who did so can be arrested and hauled off to prison to set an example.
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heh i was listening to triple m today and they had this sound bite with listeners phoning in their views on redfern riots
and all of them were anti aboriginal
the clip also ends with some guy saying "shoot them all, just shooot them all"
are they allowed to play that?
and all of them were anti aboriginal
the clip also ends with some guy saying "shoot them all, just shooot them all"
are they allowed to play that?
Egg_666
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thats pretty dam sad... and i wish i was listening to triple m at that time (quite possibly the only time ever that i wasnt listening to triple m... would have rung up....
and poloktim: u said that this wasnt against there bad treatment... jsut against the one death...
there have been many deaths in the aboriginal community... some similar to this, others of in an equally horiffic and terrible manner and this is the first time a "riot" has come about...
no this is simply the last straw that a neglected people will draw from the same hand...
they want change and its about time we started paying attention
and poloktim: u said that this wasnt against there bad treatment... jsut against the one death...
there have been many deaths in the aboriginal community... some similar to this, others of in an equally horiffic and terrible manner and this is the first time a "riot" has come about...
no this is simply the last straw that a neglected people will draw from the same hand...
they want change and its about time we started paying attention
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poloktim
\(^o^)/
I don't think so. You've said the riots were started by 17 year olds. You've also said that public schools don't give them a decent education (though I'm not sure if you meant it, or it was just another excuse for you to badmouth a government department).
Using that, you can't deduce that it was an outcry for assistance. It's not feasable. Based on that information it winds down to vengance. The mates of the bloke who died, wanted vengance. They decided "an eye for an eye" and what was said on Triple M proves the statement "an eye for an eye and the world goes blind." These people rioted for vengance, and because of this, people have "gone blind" to their predicament. People don't see the poverty they live in, they see the damage they've done. This, of course, doesn't apply to all people and like always there are exceptions. This goes to prove the point that perhaps the riots did more bad then they did good.
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Egg_666
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sigh... public schools dont give anyone a decent education... not entirely true but the point is there.... teachers dont get enough money... and neither do the schools themselves...
and i doubt it is any different there... probably worse...
ONCE AGAIN I SHALL EXPLAIN BUT IN CLEAR AND SIMPLE TERMS
i imagine it might have sounded weird before...
but its very simple...
the riot wasnt an outcry for assistance, it was CAUSED by the lack of assitance... du think everyone jsut has a riot after a mate dies? police to blame or not?
NO... the hand they have been dealt made the play the way they did
and i doubt it is any different there... probably worse...
ONCE AGAIN I SHALL EXPLAIN BUT IN CLEAR AND SIMPLE TERMS
i imagine it might have sounded weird before...
but its very simple...
the riot wasnt an outcry for assistance, it was CAUSED by the lack of assitance... du think everyone jsut has a riot after a mate dies? police to blame or not?
NO... the hand they have been dealt made the play the way they did
George W. Bush
Banned
Diverting from my gimmick account for a second, the big problem Egg_666 has is that he/she is trying to absolve the Aboriginals of ANY RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL for their actions. I think most of us can agree that even if there is a lack of necessary care shown to Aboriginals (and I concede no such point), they are at least PARTIALLY responsible for their actions.
Enlightened_One
King of Bullshit
If they are over the age of ten, then they are responsible for their actions. I don't care what race they are. Half of the rioters, it seems like, aren't there for any poor deceased kid, but are just there to stir shit and cause trouble
As is the case of almost all riots...take the anti-war protests not long back for example.
These guys have no need to riot. They were bored/uneducated/dick heads. I dont see how trashing the station and nearby shops helps their case...it's a kick in the teeth for all the intelligent aboriginals pleading their case in an appropriate way. These youths crossed the line of negotiation.
These guys have no need to riot. They were bored/uneducated/dick heads. I dont see how trashing the station and nearby shops helps their case...it's a kick in the teeth for all the intelligent aboriginals pleading their case in an appropriate way. These youths crossed the line of negotiation.
Enlightened_One
King of Bullshit
Very good point Alexander, this rioting makes the aboriginies look like troublesome law breaking fools. Probably not the image they want. They ought to publically condemn the rioters.
Besides how will it help the dead kid
Besides how will it help the dead kid