Russia 'goes to war' with Georgia (3 Viewers)

[HNAKXR]

They're not scared at all. Russia is just ruled by a bunch of paranoid oligarchs who are just as distrusting of the West as the West is of them. The Cold War may have nominally finished, but the feeling that were imbued into the current leadership generation on both sides hasn't.

As such, Russia is extremely committed to it's sphere of influence over Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics. As it's watch them go over to the Western camp one by one, it's getting increasingly edgy which is why it's come down so hard on the Georgians. It would be the same if suddenly Mexico and Canada were to go over to the Russian camp after being under American influence for hundreds of years, in that you'd find America doing quite similar things given the opportunity.

Lastly, I think we really ought to thank the Germans here. The Georgians were planning to take South Ossetia for a while, and had they been part of NATO when they did it, the Russians could have potentially been imbroiled with a conflict with NATO, as I'm honestly not sure Russian pride would let it step down one more time. It also scares me that the Georgians were honestly prepared to potentially plunge some of the most powerful nations on Earth into conflict over a region one and a half times the size of Luxemburg with no natural resources to speak of. Nationalism gone wild, I guess.

Oh, and the Ukraine showed it's position by refusing the Russian Black Sea Fleet to dock in Sevastopol, where it is based, for the duration of the war. The former Eastern block is slipping away from Russia, and I don't think it can take many more such slaps in the face from the West before it acts out.

You type the things i can't be bothered typing
bless you sir.

 

[Slidey]

They're not scared at all. Russia is just ruled by a bunch of paranoid oligarchs who are just as distrusting of the West as the West is of them. The Cold War may have nominally finished, but the feeling that were imbued into the current leadership generation on both sides hasn't.

As such, Russia is extremely committed to it's sphere of influence over Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics. As it's watch them go over to the Western camp one by one, it's getting increasingly edgy which is why it's come down so hard on the Georgians. It would be the same if suddenly Mexico and Canada were to go over to the Russian camp after being under American influence for hundreds of years, in that you'd find America doing quite similar things given the opportunity.

Lastly, I think we really ought to thank the Germans here. The Georgians were planning to take South Ossetia for a while, and had they been part of NATO when they did it, the Russians could have potentially been imbroiled with a conflict with NATO, as I'm honestly not sure Russian pride would let it step down one more time. It also scares me that the Georgians were honestly prepared to potentially plunge some of the most powerful nations on Earth into conflict over a region one and a half times the size of Luxemburg with no natural resources to speak of. Nationalism gone wild, I guess.

Oh, and the Ukraine showed it's position by refusing the Russian Black Sea Fleet to dock in Sevastopol, where it is based, for the duration of the war. The former Eastern block is slipping away from Russia, and I don't think it can take many more such slaps in the face from the West before it acts out.

Kaliningrad should opt to join the EU.

 

[Iron]

Lol Kaliningrad is a joke. What's up with that? Is it like the Russian Gitmo?
How did they wrangle that one

 

[Admiral Nelson]

Kaliningrad should opt to join the EU.

Königsberg ist für immer Deutsches!

You type the things i can't be bothered typing
bless you sir.

It beats studying for tomorrow's trial.

edit:

Lol Kaliningrad is a joke. What's up with that? Is it like the Russian Gitmo?
How did they wrangle that one

The same way Poland came to be in possession of Breslau, and, actually, half their country. By taking it off the Germans.

 

[Iron]

Well they had, like, half the Germans for a while there. I dont understand why no body minded them keeping a toe-hold in East Prussia. I mean, the Americans have Ramstein because they're awesome, but post Communist Russia? GTFO

 

[Admiral Nelson]

The Kaliningrad Oblast is 88% ethnic Russians. Hence, it doesn't make sense to give it to anyone else.

 

[Iron]

Unless you tell them that the war's over, their country sucks, get out of Germany or we will incinerate you
Also ask for granddad's bike back

 

[Admiral Nelson]

It's German in history only, now. There's not much point in stirring up stuff about it. Just as a large part of the historical core of Prussia has gone to Poland, but in reality, it's just that now, history. Very few ethnic Germans are left behind thanks to a rather brutal ethnic cleansing after World War Two to remove any possible cassus belli.

 

[happy91]

at least i look at facts.

please, im intrigued. Which facts do you look at regarding Israel?

You might be able to talk big but it doesnt mean crap if you can't support yourself.

 

[Iron]

That's outrageous. The USSR conducted selective genocide of the German people? Rubbish. They certainly raped at least 2 million German women/girls and that was bad enough.
Premier Romanov's got the whole continent shaking in their boots, what with his gas and all

 

[Slidey]

The Kaliningrad Oblast is 88% ethnic Russians. Hence, it doesn't make sense to give it to anyone else.

Only because Russia pumped Russians in there.

 

[Admiral Nelson]

That's outrageous. The USSR conducted selective genocide of the German people? Rubbish. They certainly raped at least 2 million German women/girls and that was bad enough.
Premier Romanov's got the whole continent shaking in their boots, what with his gas and all

Ethnic cleansing isn't the same thing as genocide. An ethnic cleansing involves the removal of an ethnic group from a certain area. Usually by forcible expulsion, though it can also happen through a genocide. As fact has it, some eleven million ethnic Germans were expelled from former German occupied states or German core territory, of which a million died of exposure and starvation and the like.

From the post-war Polish borders, Almost 3.6 million Germans were forcebly expelled, over a million willingly emmigrated or were evacuated by the German government. There are still some half-million ethnic Germans that are unnaccounted for and assumed dead.

Oh, and it wasn't just German women the Red Army raped. Antony Beevor suggests than almost two thirds of those raped were either Polish, Belorussian, Ukrainian and even a very large number of Russians. The figure of two million is restricted to just Germans.

edit:

Only because Russia pumped Russians in there.

And pumped the Germans out. But the point remains, it's no longer German. The idea of giving land back to it's orginal owners seems to be an Australian and American thing, because honestly, in Europe they're pretty accepting of it, at least in the modern era. Perhaps because land has changed hands so many times that they don't get caught up in such post modern pedantism.

 

[Iron]

Palestine is really an Australian and American thing

 

[Admiral Nelson]

I don't mention Palestine and Israel on forums because there are too many idiot extremists out there. Mention the situation there and it's seized upon and suddenly everyone is calling each other terrorists and Zionist oppressors.

No thanks.

 

[Iron]

A sound policy my friend
Duck and cover!

 

[Slidey]

And pumped the Germans out. But the point remains, it's no longer German. The idea of giving land back to it's orginal owners seems to be an Australian and American thing, because honestly, in Europe they're pretty accepting of it, at least in the modern era. Perhaps because land has changed hands so many times that they don't get caught up in such post modern pedantism.

I'm quite happy with Kaliningrad as it is. I just think it'd be more awesome if it seceded.

But what the fuck is "The idea of giving land back to it's orginal owners seems to be an Australian and American thing" supposed to mean?

 

[Admiral Nelson]

Post-modernism combined with post-colonialism seems to dictate that the land be given back to the native inhabitants, regardless of the fact that there vast majority of the people aren't of that group any longer.

I don't see why the ideals of "if you're strong enough to take and hold it, then it's yours" no longer apply. I'm not saying what's right and wrong, but rather, how it has and probably still ought to work.

I think it's all a bit silly.

 

[Slidey]

Yeah, ok you're talking shit.

Using the term 'post-modernism' like it is serious political jargon is what tipped me off.

 

[Admiral Nelson]

I'm not claiming it's serious political jargon, just that it's an aspect of popular culture today. The same culture that definitely does have politcal impact.

And instead of just claiming I'm talking shit, which you're entirely entitled to do I guess, how about you actually tell me why? My opinions aren't set in stone. As I encounter other viewpoints I evolve my own. It's why I post on places such as this, and why I read widely and generally lust after knowledge.

So please, tell me what's wrong with my statement?

 

[Slidey]

Let's start with 'post-modernism'. Please define it. In what way does it relate political trends today?

Remember, pomo is self-abuse.