The Abortion Debate (continued) (1 Viewer)

[Salchow]

Schroedinger, I want you to die.

Good. At last someon's stood out and said it.

For me - Killing is defined as "ending a life" and life begins at conception.

Still, we should all have the choice, because not everyone will understand what other people understand in this lifetime. Besides, although all beings should live, I know that I myself would probably choose what's easy over what's right.

 

[Besodeiah]

Yes, yes guys, I've heard of it. I can't be assed researching it on account of the other stuff I have to do thats more important.

I was just picking on how retarded the sentence was, and that I have never seen the word there're before.

 

[Besodeiah]

Sperm being 'alive' does not bode well with me, as a statement of factual science. I'm not sure why, but I just can't bring myself to say sperm is a live entity.

 

[Besodeiah]

I suppose it comes down to how specific we are about what constitutes "alive", right?

I'm pretty specific mang.

 

[Kwayera]

Sperm being 'alive' does not bode well with me, as a statement of factual science. I'm not sure why, but I just can't bring myself to say sperm is a live entity.

And the blastula, or ball of cells, just after conception, is more of a life than a sperm cell because it is many cells, with two sets of genetic material?

Come on.

 

[Besodeiah]

Don't piss on my parade, if we start saying sperm is a 'live' single entity, we may as well say eggs are alive as well, which just gives those god fags an even bigger argument that will predate 'foetus' and I can't be bothered arguing against that shit.

For the sake of my argument, I will not refer to sperm as a living thing.

 

[Enteebee]

I have no problem with admitting that the creature we abort is alive and genetically a human being...

 

[Kwayera]

Don't piss on my parade, if we start saying sperm is a 'live' single entity, we may as well say eggs are alive as well, which just gives those god fags an even bigger argument that will predate 'foetus' and I can't be bothered arguing against that shit.

For the sake of my argument, I will not refer to sperm as a living thing.

Sorry, I actually meant to reply to the idiot earlier that said that "life begins at conception" as well as you.

 

[Besodeiah]

After conception, whatever, we can debate life then. I think as far as distinguishing sperm as a live entity separate from your average 'live cell', is dangerous territory.
If you're going to refer to sperm as alive in the sense that it is a live cell, but not a live entity (in the same way you'd refer to a foetus), then whatever. But I don't think that was Chris's intention?

 

[Kwayera]

I don't know. But it's hard to distinguish as I don't regard a zygote as live, either.

 

[Besodeiah]

I wouldn't consider a zygote live, I wouldn't consider a 12 week foetus as live either as it quite clearly cannot live self sufficiently. The only reason people try and consider them live is because it has all of the aesthetic features of a live human.

Fact still remains, until that little blood sucking bastard can live outside the womb, and as long as the mother remains a vessel for which it survives, ultimately the mothers rights are paramount.

After that, and as soon as it can survive without the mother (perhaps with medical intervention), well, unless there is an abnormality I really don't see how you can then justify terminating something above 18 weeks.

 

[Enteebee]

cannot live self sufficiently

There's a lot of things that can't live self-sufficiently, i.e. everything :/
I think that only comes into play once we're conversing in the realm of... legal/moral constructs.

 

[Kwayera]

There's a lot of things that can't live self-sufficiently, i.e. everything :/
I think that only comes into play once we're conversing in the realm of... legal/moral constructs.

I think by "self-sufficiently" we mean that it does not need to be physically connected to the mother to survive.

 

[Besodeiah]

In terms of self sufficiently, I mean it can live (including medical intervention) regardless of what state the mother is in.

Which opens the flood gates again, I know, because we can debate until we're blue about what constitutes life and what doesn't. But basically what I've just said is what allows me to sleep at night and is how I justify killing something that has the potential to be a human.


I don't kill kittens either guys

 

[Kwayera]

Same here. I also don't like awake at night and think about the steak I ate for dinner.

When you start regarding human life as paramountly more important than any other, then you get into trouble. If you eat meat, wear leather and eat vegetables that required the destruction of habitat, then you don't really have the right to say that "killing" an unborn foetus is any worse.

 

[Besodeiah]

Mmm, I had steak for dinner tonight actually. It was delicious.

I think if I actually sat down and thought about it it would depress me (abortion), and it is personally something I doubt I could ever do myself, but I don't see why me not wanting to ever have one means I can't support a persons right to choose, especially when it ultimately has no bearing on my life at all.

To say YOU can't have one because I don't agree with it is ridiculous and is really the crux of my argument, it's my argument well before we even start debating life.

 

[TacoTerrorist]

When you start regarding human life as paramountly more important than any other, then you get into trouble. If you eat meat, wear leather and eat vegetables that required the destruction of habitat, then you don't really have the right to say that "killing" an unborn foetus is any worse.

Yes you do. A human life is worth more than an animal's.

 

[Kwayera]

Yes you do. A human life is worth more than an animal's.

Why?

What makes it worth more?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Why?

What makes it worth more?

its eternal soul obviously

 

[Enteebee]

Yeah but that doesn't mean it isn't a life... I can't see how we can distinguish between dependency of a mother on a baby and a tree on its owner (to water it), it's more to be brought up as an interesting moral argument as to why the mother is right to have an abortion despite that it is a living creature.