9 australians in bali drug bust.. (2 Viewers)

[lourai*87]

you've never tried panadol?

i hear its pretty fully hectic man

I think you know what i meant

ps: panadol gives some pretty good highs, i must admit

 

[tattoodguy]

87 is right............... if ppple want to take drugs thats their own fault. ur not killing anyone buy offering ppple drugs.

some laws are fucked ------ the law should be changed. There is no justification to killl someone for simply selling drugs-- its rediculous.

See like with america david hicks etc etc etc and corby etc ----- we are pretty powerlesss to get involved with these cases.

In both situations, the proceedures and mechanisms are a joke and potentially innocent australians could be killed or tortured.

In australia we believe in having fair trials etc ---------- when we know that wont occur in another country we should do all we can to bring australians back here...........where atleast we have a few safe guards in place..


our legal system and political system is shit house.........but alteast its a step up from many other regimes.

 

[hyperbole]

Apparently the younger ones were offered $10-15K.
It's kind of stupid how they agreed to have the drugs on them for such a small amount of money, although its stupid for agreeing to traffic drugs for any amount.
But I feel sorry for them, because they were so desperate for the money. Esp. since they have no criminal record and have probably never taken heroin or been involved with the others.
I think death penalty is pretty extreme. Life in prison seems a little extreme too.

 

[0Jade0]

In both situations, the proceedures and mechanisms are a joke and potentially innocent australians could be killed or tortured.

In australian we believe in having fair trials etc ---------- when we know that wont occur in another country we should do all we can to bring australians back here...........where atleast we have a few safe guards in place..


our legal system and political system is shit house.........but alteast its a step up from many other regimes.

You commit a crime in another country you shouldn't be extradited to your homeland. There are signs all over Denpasar airport saying Drugs=Death.

Are you saying that these people may be innocent? What did they just wake up with the drugs strapped to their bodies? And then though oh I'm going to go home like this?

 

[loquasagacious]

I believe that on this case the death penalty is unsuitble. However I also believe that they should face the full force of the laws of indonesia. It is not Australia's place to decide what verdict an indonesian court should pass down.

The most we should be doing is asking SBY for a presidential commute of sentence (assuming of course that a death sentence is handed down).

 

[walrusbear]

those drug trafficking laws are draconian

fucking death penalty, god it sucks
seems to make plenty of morons happy though. i only need come on this board for my daily dose of ignorance

 

[ogmzergrush]

Don't make assumptions on what I think, it had nothing to do with you saying holocaust.

I was being flippant, don't get too worked up. Out of curiousity though, if it wasn't the fact that I made reference to this (attempted) systematic extermination of the jewish people, what did you think was in "ill taste"?

The comparison is just invalid. The the holocaust was the systematic attempt to wipe out a entire race. These people have broken the law and now they will incur the penalty according to that country. And from this THEIR perspective it is justifiable.

From the perspective of Hitler, killing jews was justifiable too, just because you disagree with it doesn't make it wrong, after all cultural relativism, yada yada.

The victims of the holocaust were innocent people these people are by no means innocent.

Hitler didn't think they were innocent, and it was in Germany, not Australia, so by the logic which I've been met with surely it's his call.

Whether you think their killing is justifiable or not is a completely different issue.

Completely different issue, well spotted, so maybe what I'm saying, and what I've been saying all along is that from where I stand it's wrong.

And I don't think you can be black and white to say that 'something is wrong anywhere anytime' because you have to understand the idea of cultural relavitism and the beliefs of different cultures etc. So therefore when I look at this situation from my moral standpoint I have to take into account the circumstance of others or whatever situation I am looking at, which in this case in Indonesia.

I can be exceptionally black and white about it, I don't find that the willful killing of any living being by any other living being, regardless of context, or location, is acceptable. Yes that's my opinion, so whether or not it's "right" by their books IS a different issue, which is why I've been careful to make it clear that all I'm expressing is my opinion on the matter.

Are you seriously telling me that your moral opinion on an issue varies just because it's happening somewhere other than Australia? I don't see how that works at all, if I find something morally repulsive then that's true of it no matter where it happens, and I fail to see how local law should come into shaping my moral standpoint on it at all.

Edit: My initial comparison wasn't intended to be a direct parallel to this situation, as you no doubt realise. All I'm saying is that I don't see why a moral stance on something is expected to shift as soon as something crosses the border. I used it in the sense that it's something people pretty much everywhere in the world objected to, and intervened in (rightfully), despite the fact that it was in a different country.

 

[$$$]

yeah its only drugs..not weopons -------- if ur taking drugs from a country................thats actually helping the fucking country.

And you cant say they are all guilty etc........one of them i heard..didnt even have drugs on him ------

im sure they will force the others to implicate him though.

thats how legal systems work. total injustice.

why be sympathetic to corby? she got busted with drugs and alledgedly confesssed? so i dont seeee why she is any lesss guilty.

Indonesia should show more respect to our citizens..we should have special privlidges etc...including the right to smuggle drugs from them.........we help them so much they could turn a blind eye.

Australian officials like the federal police should not be co-operating with any corrrupt governments etc.... and human rights abusers etc.

we have seeen the circus over the corby case --- why put other australians through that........................... their is potentila for innocent australians to now be murdered because of the actions of our government................

Thats fucking unacceptable.

are you always trying to say the opposite of everyone else? NOT FUNNY

 

[spell check]

those drug trafficking laws are draconian

fucking death penalty, god it sucks
seems to make plenty of morons happy though. i only need come on this board for my daily dose of ignorance

you tell it walrus

love people who are supposedly christian but support death penalty

how can anyone support the death penalty, all it does is give stupid people some sick sense of closure that the bad people have been terminated, without feeling the guilt of being the person who murdered them

 

[Scanorama]

If they can say 'Oh I didn't know trafficking drugs can result in death penatly in Indonesia, they might as well just say 'Oh I didn't know it is illegal at all!' Stupid people, Croby story has been on the news for almost 6 months now, and they still havent learnt a lesson.

I don't support the death penalty, but if thats what the Indonesian law said, then they should be punish in accordance to the law. What make them better than other people? Because they are foreigners? If you prepare to go to other countries, then also prepare to respect their laws. What your country think does not mean other country will need to enforce.

alos as a note - don't u love how wen ever any of this happens, the heading is Australian faced with death penalty or Australian caught in drug smuggle, and then wen they show the picture of who it is, ist never an "australian" as such, always a foreigner with australian citzenship.

Australian? Do you mean the traditional Australian, of what it is called 'Aborginal'? Anyone who has Australian Citizenship are Australian, and thats a fact.

 

[mahuligan]

ohhh myyy gosshh!
all this talk about the legal system being unjust and stupid is absolutely ridiculous... these people broke the law and should be punished. they were found with the drugs ON them for gods sake, and they were not in australia so why should they be tried under our laws? the jurisdiction of the indonesians is completely fair - just like another poster wrote - if someone was caught trying to smuggle drugs into australia there would be a public outcry if these smugglers werent tried under our laws! the indonesian laws may seem harsh to some, but it is well known that when you are in another country you are expected to obey their laws or face the consequences!

tattoodguy:
yeah its only drugs..not weopons -------- if ur taking drugs from a country................thats actually helping the fucking country.

i dont know if your being a tool and joking but if you are serious WTF is wrong with you? helping their country!? actually buying drugs from them persuades the drug dealers to continue harvesting it! and dont undermine the effect of drugs... much of the crime around the world is drug related! with that, and the effect drugs can have on an individual and the people around them, it is completely understandable to see the full weight of the legal system against them!

regardless of their social status or age or context anyone found smuggling drugs should be persecuted under the laws of the country they were caught it.
Corby has so far been receiving a fair trial - the court has even allowed a person in PRISON in australia, to fly to indonesia as a witness! i cant see why these people should be given any leniancy, when they were caught in indonesia, not australia with drugs actually on them! and the audacity of one man to say 'whatever happenned to schapelle corby happenned to be' is just ridiculous and shows his character...

Gough Whitlam:
If they can say 'Oh I didn't know trafficking drugs can result in death penatly in Indonesia, they might as well just say 'Oh I didn't know it is illegal at all!' Stupid people, Croby story has been on the news for almost 6 months now, and they still havent learnt a lesson.

I don't support the death penalty, but if thats what the Indonesian law said, then they should be punish in accordance to the law. What make them better than other people? Because they are foreigners? If you prepare to go to other countries, then also prepare to respect their laws. What your country think does not mean other country will need to enforce.

amen to that..atleast someone understands the consistency needed for a just legal system

 

[[trent]]

But I feel sorry for them, because they were so desperate for the money. Esp. since they have no criminal record and have probably never taken heroin or been involved with the others.

not completely innocent:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1349711.htm

 

[paper cup]

ohhh myyy gosshh!
all this talk about the legal system being unjust and stupid is absolutely ridiculous... these people broke the law and should be punished. they were found with the drugs ON them for gods sake, and they were not in australia so why should they be tried under our laws? the jurisdiction of the indonesians is completely fair - just like another poster wrote - if someone was caught trying to smuggle drugs into australia there would be a public outcry if these smugglers werent tried under our laws! the indonesian laws may seem harsh to some, but it is well known that when you are in another country you are expected to obey their laws or face the consequences!



i dont know if your being a tool and joking but if you are serious WTF is wrong with you? helping their country!? actually buying drugs from them persuades the drug dealers to continue harvesting it! and dont undermine the effect of drugs... much of the crime around the world is drug related! with that, and the effect drugs can have on an individual and the people around them, it is completely understandable to see the full weight of the legal system against them!

regardless of their social status or age or context anyone found smuggling drugs should be persecuted under the laws of the country they were caught it.
Corby has so far been receiving a fair trial - the court has even allowed a person in PRISON in australia, to fly to indonesia as a witness! i cant see why these people should be given any leniancy, when they were caught in indonesia, not australia with drugs actually on them! and the audacity of one man to say 'whatever happenned to schapelle corby happenned to be' is just ridiculous and shows his character...



amen to that..atleast someone understands the consistency needed for a just legal system

tattooed guy is a certifiable troll.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Who are we - SERIOUSLY - to challenge indonesian justice?
All these people saying "the death penalty is stoopid ROFL", need to take a step back and realise that the reason why you think it's stupid is because its been drummed into your head since you can remember. You live in a society that doesnt condone the death penalty.

HOWEVER in indonesia, they believe in it VERY STRONGLY.. sure we can make our case to them against it, but it's wrong to say that for some unknown reason we're objectively right and they're objectively wrong.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Who are we - SERIOUSLY - to challenge indonesian justice?
All these people saying "the death penalty is stoopid ROFL", need to take a step back and realise that the reason why you think it's stupid is because its been drummed into your head since you can remember. You live in a society that doesnt condone the death penalty.

HOWEVER in indonesia, they believe in it VERY STRONGLY.. sure we can make our case to them against it, but it's wrong to say that for some unknown reason we're objectively right and they're objectively wrong.

True, but that's why I've been very careful all along to state that I personally am opposed to the death penalty under any circumstances. I can accept that they see it differently. I don't expect my opinion to have any impact upon how things work in an Indonesian court, or upon the opinions of others here, because as you said, they run things their own way, and I completely accept that.

That said, I'm not about to change my mind and decide that putting people to death is a good idea just because that's how things are done elsewhere, and I'm certainly not about to be told that I'm "wrong" because putting people to death is law somewhere else (Not a criticism of what you've said NTB, more others who have posted previously).

Correct, I'm not Captain Objectivity, I'm not Indonesian, nor am I well-versed in Indonesian law, all I'm saying is that from my narrow little viewpoint, shaped by exceptionally limited experience, the death penalty is unjust. Yes, I accept the fact that in the grand scheme of things this means exactly jack shit, but I'm happy to live with that.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

True, i didn't mean to attack anyone's anti-death penalty views, as I feel it's important to fight for what you believe in. I was more focused on telling people to shut up who somehow believe they've reached an enlightened state where they *know* that it's universally objectively unjust to kill.

I don't want to persecute people who want to throw their opinion into the discourse.

 

[ogmzergrush]

True, i didn't mean to attack anyone's anti-death penalty views, as I feel it's important to fight for what you believe in. I was more focused on telling people to shut up who somehow believe they've reached an enlightened state where they *know* that it's universally objectively unjust to kill.

I don't want to persecute people who want to throw their opinion into the discourse.

Ah, well that's fair enough then *retracts claws and looks sheepish*

 

[lourai*87]

Same with me im not having a huge preach about how wrong it is to kill. I just dont feel that by doing this they are solving anything at all. And even if these people are guilty of it, they are only pawns in some big bastards game. They were offered a bunch of money (which still doesnt make it right, but tempting to some all the same). And these peoples families could be left without their children..for what in particular? Indonesias satisfaction, that one less person will take drugs out of their country.

I just feel it is barbaric and unnecessary.

 

[walrusbear]

Who are we - SERIOUSLY - to challenge indonesian justice?
All these people saying "the death penalty is stoopid ROFL", need to take a step back and realise that the reason why you think it's stupid is because its been drummed into your head since you can remember. You live in a society that doesnt condone the death penalty.

HOWEVER in indonesia, they believe in it VERY STRONGLY.. sure we can make our case to them against it, but it's wrong to say that for some unknown reason we're objectively right and they're objectively wrong.

the key problem being that it's an australian citizen being put to death in a foreign country.
there is such a thing as cultural relativity, to be sure, but it seems like you're just being a cock to support your argument. you honestly think because Indonesian government thinks they should be allowed to kill people for smuggling drugs we should allow them to do so to our citizens?
the 'guilty' part of this argument seems kind of irrelevant. this whole 'they deserve to die because its the law' perspective is so paltry- does anyone here SERIOUSLY condone the death penalty for this crime (turn your reactionary switch off)? the australian government does not condone capital punishment, and it's fucking disgusting that we sold these people out.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

you honestly think because Indonesian government thinks they should be allowed to kill people for smuggling drugs we should allow them to do so to our citizens?

umm... YES! Because, even if i don't CONDONE it, I accept that cultures are different. Sure it's probably right to say "we'd rather u didn't kill them for x, y, and z reasons" but it's also wrong, to say that they're wrong.
Laws are USUALLY merely a reflection of cultural beliefs/customs, do you believe that we are morally superior to them or something? Can you imagine it reversed.. and the indonesians complaining when we caught one of their drug dealers that he WASN'T put to death?