Applause for the gayest student name at all time... (2 Viewers)

[xeuyrawp]

University creates the club with no peer
Source.
Harriet Alexander Higher Education Reporter
June 8, 2007

THE pub with no beer has met its tragicomedic match: the student union with one student.
The organisation set up by Macquarie University to replace those liquidated in the wake of scandals surrounding the former undergraduate president will only have one student on its board.
And he has been appointed by the university, rather than elected by his peers.
The university circulated an email this week outlining the shape of U@MQ, which has already started operating in place of the sports association, student representative council and union to provide catering, clubs, sport and shops on campus.
The psychology student Nicholas Mueller, who will replace the controversial Victor Ma as the student representative on Macquarie's governing body, was announced as the sole student representative on U@MQ.
Mr Ma was sacked as president of the union, and resigned from the university and student councils after an investigation by the university and police into the financial management of the bodies he controlled, and the transfer of more than $200,000 from their accounts.
The university will next year hold elections for a student representative to sit on its governing body, and whoever wins this place will also be appointed to the U@MQ board.
The National Union of Students believes Macquarie is now one of just three universities without an elected body to represent students on campus.
Tim Quadrio, the student representative to the university's law department, said any student who was appointed would be compromised by owing their position to the university.
"Someone who wants to protect that position will possibly not speak out as strongly as one who has a mandate from the students," Mr Quadrio said.
"We're happy to see the end of Victor Ma and his cronies, but to have thrown out the baby with the bathwater seems a bit sad."
Richard Kerr, the project manager of U@MQ, said students would continue to have input by sitting on various committees and through an employment program. "What we're looking at is broadening this definition of student representation, broadening it to general student engagement," Mr Kerr said.
Mr Mueller said he and other students hoped to revive the concept of an elected student body but it was too early to say how this would be done.


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The bit about Nick being appointed by the uni seems like a bit of a half-truth...

 

[Kegs]

He was totally elected and Harriet should have known this, if she had have bothered to look into the way they had set it all up. I was a little annoyed about their semi-attack on Nikm. It's not like he asked them to appoint him. They did it. I was there when he found out. It was mentioned in a meeting, and Bowler was like 'You didn't know yet?' It was tres bizzare. Anyways, douches all round. Sufjan for the win!

 

[P_Dilemma]

I was a little annoyed about their semi-attack on Nikm. It's not like he asked them to appoint him. They did it. I was there when he found out.

Well, not to be critical, but i doesn't seem like there was anyone else for the job ( i may be hellishly wrong as i wasn't there, however...).

Anyway, at least Veema is out of the building. Congus and GL, NikM!

-P_D

 

[glitterfairy]

Well, not to be critical, but i doesn't seem like there was anyone else for the job ( i may be hellishly wrong as i wasn't there, however...).

Anyway, at least Veema is out of the building. Congus and GL, NikM!

-P_D

I'm sure that if the uni looked hard enough and advertised enough about elections etc, they'd find a number of candidates.

That being said I have every faith in Nik's capabilities

 

[iambored]

i don't know the guy besides his bos presence but i also have faith in his capabilities and i get sick of the way they belittle his position.

 

[nikmueller]

i don't agree with you lynlyn. not about me being capable (i love you too lynlyn) but about holding elections.

Would people really come forward for election? and would these people be the ones you want representing you?

students who care about the student population are in the mentoring program or executives in Clubs and Socs. They do other stuff. They wouldn't work hard to be elected onto a $tudent $ervices board.

the people who would want to be on that board would be people who want a foot up into being an executive in companies outside of MQ.

In future years, should the student rep on Uni Council be the U@MQ rep? probably yes. The rep on uni council is elected to represent the entire university student population on all sorts of issues. U@MQ has a small target in comparison - just users of MUSR and SAM.

Apart from the fact that this student volunteer has a lot to do, they should (theoretically) be the best person for the job of representing students.

 

[nikmueller]

C L U B M A C

is
back.

​

"a must for all macquarie students" kegs
www.clubmac.net.au

oops thanks fixed

 

[xeuyrawp]

C L U B M A C

is
back.

​

"a must for all macquarie students" kegs
www.clubmac.net.au

Oh rah!

PS: The link's wrong. Since this forum basically has no mod, you should edit it yourself.

 

[glitterfairy]

i don't agree with you lynlyn. not about me being capable (i love you too lynlyn) but about holding elections.

Oh oh oh... oh byron! His influence is spreading, I see. He said the funniest thing about a pink ukelali today though, but I will let him tell that joke

Would people really come forward for election? and would these people be the ones you want representing you?

students who care about the student population are in the mentoring program or executives in Clubs and Socs. They do other stuff. They wouldn't work hard to be elected onto a $tudent $ervices board.

Maybe it's the optimist in me speaking (and there are documented case studies of where my optimism has royally screwed me over) but I believe that if a person cared enough about the university (including the students) and wanted to make a change, then they would want to get involved with Student Services and try to see what they could do to improve the situation (and I believe people like this exist). I'd give it a go myself, except I know nothing of politics, other than it's totally not my thing and I'd do an awful job of it.

 

[AsyLum]

i don't agree with you lynlyn. not about me being capable (i love you too lynlyn) but about holding elections.

Would people really come forward for election? and would these people be the ones you want representing you?

students who care about the student population are in the mentoring program or executives in Clubs and Socs. They do other stuff. They wouldn't work hard to be elected onto a $tudent $ervices board.

the people who would want to be on that board would be people who want a foot up into being an executive in companies outside of MQ.

With the prestige of the council all but shot, and the non-paid position, you'll be hard strapped to find people interested in this.

Besides who wants 1-6 people making this shit up for us, I vote a Roman Senate, and togas, gotta have togas!

In future years, should the student rep on Uni Council be the U@MQ rep? probably yes. The rep on uni council is elected to represent the entire university student population on all sorts of issues. U@MQ has a small target in comparison - just users of MUSR and SAM.

Apart from the fact that this student volunteer has a lot to do, they should (theoretically) be the best person for the job of representing students.

I'd like to think that was possible, but what do we really want the people to do?

It seems that the problem inherently lies with managing the affairs and funds of the student community on campus. This seems rather ill fated if you can't generate your own funds though, so first and foremost, someone HAS to make a viable plan which, if at all possible, does not simply rely on the money from the uni.

What has been lacking from most instances has been this ability to run a council as a business as well as a political post. Just take a look at the accounting clubs! I think its not all about the outward discussions, the lobbying or crap, but also about the fact that funds are unable to be managed correctly, and if I were the university, I'd have probably neutralised the council long ago to stem VeeMa's influence.

<2cents>

 

[Kegs]

Where are we going to get money from if not the uni?

 

[AsyLum]

Find it yourself, sponsorship, membership fees. It seems rather stupid to say you want to be independent of something and then demand they give you money.

 

[Kegs]

Not at all. Independant inquiries into the government are funded by the government, so why can't the uni, who we give money to, fund us?

Btw, we are on our way. I found 5c under my chair just now.

 

[AsyLum]

But you're not an independent inquiry into the university at all, you're a student council who's looking after the interests of the students by posing as a 'collective' against the institution.

And the thing is, you aren't paying the uni anymore, thats the exact reason why VSU was introduced, so that people who want to pay can. If you call the admin fees 'paying the uni' I hope that you understand that local students foot a minority of the running costs of the uni as well.

Whats going to stop another Victor Ma mismanaging funds? Why should any university entrust students with that much money after years of mismanagement ?

 

[Kegs]

U@MQ will stop another Victor Ma mismanaging funds. I dont know what you mean by saying that much money. We dont want the new SRC to have access to $500,000. I think that that would be very stupid also. We need enough to run effectively, and thats all.

And if the students dont provide the money for running the uni, who does? Would the uni exist without the students?

Also, why the use of 'collective'? What do you mean by this? I am confused by what you are saying.

 

[AsyLum]

a) $25,000 is still a significant amount of money, and nothing from the consititution nor the posts in the past few weeks has given (myself, at least) any indication on what exactly that $25,000 is going to be spent on. I'd feel much better if I knew not even exact details, heck I'd settle for ball park figures on what you'd need for that.

b) Shouldn't you at least be able to show the uni that you could firstly maintain or sustain yourself outside of their help? Or at least foot a certain percentage through your own means either through sponsorships or students funds? Again this is a matter of book keeping and finances which I'm afraid is as transparent as Ma's. It'd be responsible to show them that despite their contribution, there are plans to attain such sponsorships and examples of that, heck a rise of 30, 60, 90/100% in self-funding would be a nice plan.

c) I said local students, and if you seriously think that local students pay for the Uni running costs, I'm not only stunned but afraid. Why do you think International Students and Full Fee paying students exist? Why do you think people are turning to businessmen rather than academics as VCs and Chancellors?

I'm not saying that student contributions account for a certain percentage, but you can't depend on that now with VSU in play. IF you do delve into student funds, what are the implications for the Government and University, since it isn't 'our' money anymore, but payments to the institutions.

c) With the use of the collective I was trying to be subtle, but I guess if you want me to spell it out, the SRC is effectively an attempt at a student union, it is about providing a large enough entity with a large enough membership of concerned publics to have a say on their conditions at the University. Therefore you are as far removed from an independent inquiry as a Union rep is from an internal audit on its workforce.

 

[Kegs]

It is not a union. At no point is it suggested that students pay to join. All students would be members, and by all I mean International as well as Full Fee paying students. I never said anything about local students.

The $25,000 was over 5 years, and as I said, it was an estimate (which equates to around 16 cents per student per year). It would be used to organise, hold and advertise events as well as keeping students informed on what is going on around campus. There would also be a request for money to fund a student paper.

I would love to attempt to survive on out own, but how can we show the uni that we can survive without them when we cant even meet or hand anything out without the stamp of approval. If the university wants to increase social capital on campus, then they will need to invest money.

 

[xeuyrawp]

It is not a union. At no point is it suggested that students pay to join. All students would be members, and by all I mean International as well as Full Fee paying students. I never said anything about local students.

The $25,000 was over 5 years, and as I said, it was an estimate (which equates to around 16 cents per student per year). It would be used to organise, hold and advertise events as well as keeping students informed on what is going on around campus. There would also be a request for money to fund a student paper.

I would love to attempt to survive on out own, but how can we show the uni that we can survive without them when we cant even meet or hand anything out without the stamp of approval. If the university wants to increase social capital on campus, then they will need to invest money.

- 'Union'. Do you realise how seriously indoctrinated you sound? It is a union: Under ancient Common Law, a group of individuals can form a legal entity which represents their interests, whether it is paid for or not. It may be compulsary or not; or it even may represent them regardless of their current or prospective membership or even the nature of the membership, if there is one (which is what you're saying).

- Finances. You cannot have 'estimates' in these cases. For your pitch, you take an exact number to the uni. You show them exactly what you're going to do with it. Having vague expressions of intent is terrible.

You also need to have an actual proposal which doesn't have patronising Board of Studies bullshit in it.

 

[nikmueller]

Finances. You cannot have 'estimates' in these cases. For your pitch, you take an exact number to the uni. You show them exactly what you're going to do with it. Having vague expressions of intent is terrible.

vague expressions of intent? we have clear expressions of intent in general. In regards to funding/where the money is going that is something else.

this whole SRC idea is a concept proposal. We expect criticism. If there was no criticism i would be worried.

the next step is to add the criticisms into the proposal and develop a new one. anyone know about wikis that would be appropriate, preferably only allowing members to contribute, and free. know of one?

If we do not create an SRC there will be a deep void in our uni. only 3 unis in aust. do not have an SRC. Club macq is one of the wealthiest unis. why should funding be an issue?

To the detriment of students present and future, some people worked hard to destroy student representation. we have the opportunity to start up something new the way we want it. It won't be perfect, but it will be better then nothing.

 

[AsyLum]

ARGH!

"we have clear expressions of intent in general. "

clear expressions of vague things?!

ARGH!!

The issue that burns me with this whole thing is that the entire thing is still based off the model of a pre-VSU union. You are looking at the uni for money, you are expecting student politics to be a right rather than a privilige, and there are no ideas on how to maintain it past those 5 years of funding.

You have to identify if there is a need to run one of these things, or it'll end up just like the previous incarnations, with only a select few going for spots with the majority not caring or not knowing what was happening.

I ask what exactly will this SRC be capable of? Will it be able to lobby the uni into making changes? Will it manage the funds of student services? Will it be merely an advisor role? Will it be just a facefront for a publication? Seriously, all I've read is that students will be elected to a council, and thats about it. What the hell are they going to be in charge of and how does this integrate with the U@MQ, SAM, and MUSR ?

It IS a proposal, and a major one, and one which will most likely be the last for a few years. Think about it, if MQ has just voted to end student politics due to fund mismanagement, what the hell is there response going to be when you ask them to fund a similar 'src' which has no budget, a constitution that seems to gift marginalised spots on the council, and no real future plan.

Please understand that all these criticisms are to ensure that we don't have another situation where the same thing happens again, as I said prior, student politics should not be a right, it should be a privilige. The uni has put up with almost 10 years or so of fucked up student politics, and as students we must shoulder the fact that if we want to again have such things, it'll have to take place in an entirely new atmosphere, where unions, src, councils, call them whatever you like, have to run as self autonomous, or nearabouts, entities.