christianity and dinosaurs> can they be friends? (1 Viewer)

[MoonlightSonata]

In conclusion the Atheist win this round.

Well actually I think the agnostics win

 

[sub]

So any group of people can come together create beliefs on the basis of love, then through giberish they can rationalize the existence of any hobgoblin they create.

Yet Atheist come together and try to destroy off all dogma, and hardcore Theist want even acknowledge it., and run back to their emotions.

Yours thoughts and emotions arent enough to prove the existence of fairy tales.

ur blending two responses...firstly that first part was to argue ur_inner_child's last response...and then it was to further the claim...ur mixing up the context of the post.
having a religion on the basis of love is retarded...u have to prove god exists to urself. only then do u get somewhere. like i sed im working on the proof. and it IS logical. wait and ill give it to u once i hammer out anything that seems like a generalisation...

Yours thoughts and emotions arent enough to prove the existence of fairy tales.

indeed mate, they aren't, but then again, athiesm is not without faith either... u cant deny that. why then do u look up to someone? its innate, and u cant ignore it... whether u believe in god, aliens, statues or whatever u look up to sumthing. even athiests do... why do u idolise certain people? why is it that u look up to others? it IS subjective. but the need to attach to something is undeniable. the concept that god exists isnt as far-fetched as u make it out to seem.

 

[waterfowl]

Once again, no one has actually put forward any reasons for believing in God.

All I've heard is, "oh it's a belief. You can't criticise someone's beliefs."

But this is plainly and painfully false - if you believe 2 + 2 = 5, you are wrong. If you believe a square has 3 sides, you are wrong. If you believe humans can jump 100 feet into the air unaided, you are wrong.

To say belief's can't be criticised is absolutely absurd. "I believe in that torturing babies for fun is right! You can't criticise my beliefs though, they're beliefs!"

I believe in God, I know God exists, because I have been healed of incurable sicknesses (as have many other people I know). I know that God exists because I have seen miracles.

If you don't want to believe in God thats fine, but I do so just accept that. Just in the same way you can't be swayed to know God, I can't be swayed to not know him.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I find often.. ever christian has their stories...
'my grandmother lived for 8 years with cancer! it was god!'
'doctors said i would die, but i lived! it was god!'

Where in the bible does it state that the words in the bible are sometimes mistruths? they have to be, if not there's 2000 year old deciples of jesus living somewhere up in the mountains.
Or is the bible ment to be taken entirely as a metaphor? is heaven a metaphor then? is the man 'jesus' a metaphor?

 

[ur_inner_child]

who was that to??? and where is the relevance...all it showed was that truth is subjective...and able to be witheld. also, it may be considered beneficial to do so, but then again, who are we to hold the truth back? i still do not see the correlation between that and religion?? how?

I apologise, I said it in a rude way cuz of that iamsickofyear12...

I thought it correlated to religion because of her awareness of the value in religion, despite truth. I dunno. While I was atheist, it struck me well. Perhaps not you then. Each to their own, I figure.

*goes back to study for ext eng and ees*

 

[Not-That-Bright]

if it is an INCURABLE sickness then it CANNOT BE CURED.
by definition.. an incurable sickness cannot be cured, even by an 'omnipotent' god.

What miracles have you seen? people sick getting better? how is that a miracle? I get sick.. i take medicine i get better...

Think about it like you would any situation... someones sick and gets better, is it more likely that their immune system has picked up.. or the virus has died from some natural cause, or that a devine god has given a person a sickness only to take it away?

Do you think EVERY TIME someone gets sick with cancer and is cured that it's a miracle from god?

 

[sub]

if it is an INCURABLE sickness then it CANNOT BE CURED.
by definition.. an incurable sickness cannot be cured, even by an 'omnipotent' god.

What miracles have you seen? people sick getting better? how is that a miracle? I get sick.. i take medicine i get better...

dude...thats why they are termed "miracles"...that last one was a stupid post...but the rest before that sounded good...

 

[Comrade nathan]

I believe in God, I know God exists, because I have been healed of incurable sicknesses (as have many other people I know). I know that God exists because I have seen miracles.

No you havent. Your either lying or it can be explained.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I believe in God, I know God exists, because I have been healed of incurable sicknesses (as have many other people I know). I know that God exists because I have seen miracles.

If you don't want to believe in God thats fine, but I do so just accept that. Just in the same way you can't be swayed to know God, I can't be swayed to not know him.

As an agnostic, my non-beliefs are based on reason and logic (or your lack-there-of). Your beliefs are not founded on reason and logic, and are therefore not justifiable.

No offense, and it's great that you're healed and all, but this is your argument:
1. I was cured of sickness
2. So were lots of people I know
3. Therefore God exists

With the suppressed premises added, it now looks like this:

1. I was cured of sickness
2. So were lots of people I know
3. I can't explain this phenomenon
4. The best answer is God
5. Therefore God caused me to be healed
C. Therefore God exists

I don't think you can make the enormous leap of logic to jump to premise 4. So I propose that this argument is invalid.

 

[waterfowl]

No you havent. Your either lying or it can be explained.

Yes it can be explained...God healed me.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

what? because you're claiming that 'incurable' sicknesses can be cured?
that's like saying a circle is square.

 

[waterfowl]

As an agnostic, my non-beliefs are based on reason and logic (or your lack-there-of). Your beliefs are not founded on reason and logic, and are therefore not justifiable.

No offense, and it's great that you're healed and all, but this is your argument:
1. I was cured of sickness
2. So were lots of people I know
3. Therefore God exists

With the suppressed premises added, it now looks like this:

1. I was cured of sickness
2. So were lots of people I know
3. I can't explain this phenomenon
4. Therefore God caused me to be healed
C. Therefore God exists

I don't think you can make the enormous leap of logic to jump to premise 4. So I propose that this argument is invalid.

Obviously you are very influenced by logic. I am a creative person, logic doesn't matter as much to me as it obviously does to you.

I have faith.

 

[waterfowl]

what? because you're claiming that 'incurable' sicknesses can be cured?
that's like saying a circle is square.

Thats the point, God is the God of the impossible.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So you believe god can make a square with 3 sides?

I'm a fairly creative person too, and so is i'm sure Moonlightsonata... Some people can just see the lines between their imagination and reality.

 

[Comrade nathan]

indeed mate, they aren't, but then again, athiesm is not without faith either... u cant deny that. why then do u look up to someone? its innate, and u cant ignore it... whether u believe in god, aliens, statues or whatever u look up to sumthing. even athiests do... why do u idolise certain people? why is it that u look up to others? it IS subjective. but the need to attach to something is undeniable. the concept that god exists isnt as far-fetched as u make it out to seem.

Its not subjective. I look up to other people because what they contribute is vaulable. They are also real, and they try to destroy reactionary systems and philosophies.

It is far fetched to belief in a higher force, that created the world. It is far fetched to believe in existance without matter.

Foolishness utter foolishness.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Obviously you are very influenced by logic. I am a creative person, logic doesn't matter as much to me as it obviously does to you.

I have faith.

I am a highly creative person, I hate maths, etc. It's nothing to do with what kind of person you are. The only way you can know something is through REASON.

"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."

According to you, if I proposed that pigs fly around and kidnap people to sell to a bunch of cloud gods living in alternate reality, I cannot be disproved.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think we need to set some rules... rules of human logic,
in order to have a proper debate we cannot allow for abstract ideas (ie, claiming that the big bang started the universe) or blind faiths (ie, god can do impossible things).

 

[Comrade nathan]

I am a highly creative person, I hate maths, etc. It's nothing to do with what kind of person you are. The only way you can know something is through REASON.

"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."

According to you, if I proposed that pigs fly around and kidnap people to sell to a bunch of cloud gods living in alternate reality, I cannot be disproved.

Actually it can be disprove, just like God.

Thats the difference between a materialst Atheist and agnositc (incase anyone doesnt know the difference)

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I am a highly creative person, I hate maths, etc. It's nothing to do with what kind of person you are. The only way you can know something is through REASON.

"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."

According to you, if I proposed that pigs fly around and kidnap people to sell to a bunch of cloud gods living in alternate reality, I cannot be disproved.

What i got from this is.. u are not influenced by logic, therefor we cannot debate you with logic and we have as good a chance throwing other 'creative' ideas at you as to how the universe was created etc.

 

[waterfowl]

23In hell,[3] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

(NOTE: I am not calling myself a prophet)