Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

LOL this is rather interesting..

Faith

The belief in something with no supporting evidence (or in the face of contradictory evidence). Considered to be a miracle in itself. Proof of the unknown/unknowable (i.e. if you have faith in something, it must therefore be true).

Faith is often considered a virtue - if a person has strong faith he/she is somehow a better person for it. The more outlandish the belief, the stronger the faith, and the better the person is. If you can sincerely believe in something that is demonstrably false, illogical, self-contradictory or just ridiculous, you must be a very holy person indeed. Or a kook, depending on who you're trying to convince.

Common usage : "It doesn't matter what you say, I have faith and so you're simply wrong."

 

[joujou_84]

faith has nothing to do with whether or not ur a good person. terrorists have "faith" but they are not exactly classified as good ppl. it is ur actions and morals that make u a good person not ur faith however any faith one has should be based on good intentions and if ones faith is based on killing and terrorising ppl then maybe they should reconsider their faith.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes... but the people who share the 'terrorists' faith feel that way,
as do the christians who share the same faith..

 

[joujou_84]

yes... but the people who share the 'terrorists' faith feel that way,
as do the christians who share the same faith..

i dont know about others but islam is not based on killing and murdering and i dont share the faith of anyone who kills, btw its not their faith that makes them kill, they do it coz they feel they have no options left. it dosent say in the qoran to kill people. we are not taught in mosques that westerners are bad and must die. that is some radical belief some ppl have and has nothing to do with the muslim faith. if they base it on muslim faith they are lyign to themselves, coz in islam if u kill u will be punished. it is a fundamental law and by using islam as a means for terrorusts to kill is them making up their own religion.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes it does.
Correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression that the qoran specifically mentioned the killings of the people of other religions as good deeds?
.. It's kinda hard for me to argue with such little knowledge on the matter sorry.

 

[joujou_84]

yes it does.
Correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression that the qoran specifically mentioned the killings of the people of other religions as good deeds?
.. It's kinda hard for me to argue with such little knowledge on the matter sorry.

nope, i obviosuly cant read arabic so i read it in english. it specifically says if one begins to attack u, u may attack them back exactly the weay they attacked u, eg if they stabbed u, then stab back. howveer u are never to take the first strike, or kill the innocent

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea well they obviously view that is alright...
They see western SOCIETY as enherently evil, they believe that the contract workers in iraq are HELPING the coalition, who they believe has attacked them...

The concept of 'I'll hit you because you hit me', is a bad one to live under, where does it begin? who hurt who first? we no longer know because it is lost to the sands of time.. so instead we'll just claim our side and kill each other?

I'm sure that these words perhaps were ment to be taken in a different way... but the fact is while some people are simply desperate, crazy, they will take any words like this and twist them to their liking.

 

[joujou_84]

Yea well they obviously view that is alright...
They see western SOCIETY as enherently evil, they believe that the contract workers in iraq are HELPING the coalition, who they believe has attacked them...

The concept of 'I'll hit you because you hit me', is a bad one to live under, where does it begin? who hurt who first? we no longer know because it is lost to the sands of time.. so instead we'll just claim our side and kill each other?

I'm sure that these words perhaps were ment to be taken in a different way... but the fact is while some people are simply desperate, crazy, they will take any words like this and twist them to their liking.

god says in the qoran u must defend urself. coz if u continue to let ppl bash u into the ground ull eventually explode. but i agree where do we draw the line? and lots of ppl twist words thats why the qoran mentions the punsihment that faces those who twist gods words.

 

[Sophie777]

As for life on other planets... it's quite possible, given the enormous scale of our universe, and i mean... it's already happened once for certain lol

Death? When you die you simply lose consciousness and cease to exist, this is a hard concept for... any human to grasp, as our existance is the one thing that is always with us, we cannot imagine not existing because it is nothingness..
My suggestion to you would be... have you ever been knocked unconcious? have you ever gone to sleep and not remembered dreaming? the time while u were dreaming.... and u can't remember anything happening, imagine that forever.

I can't see nothingness... so I somehow for some reason believe in reincarnation. For absolutely no reason at all and I know it is absolutely probably wrong but it seems more logical than nothingness. Thats just weird.

 

[Sophie777]

1. On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. (The Cow: 161 )

2. Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. ( The Cow: 15 )

3. The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful, who will not believe. (Spoils of War: 55)

4. Oh ye who believe! the non-Muslims are unclean. (Repentance:17)

5. Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (Repentance: 123)

6. Oh believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief, whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers. (Repentance: 20) 7. Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute. ( Repentance: 29 )

Jou Jou, isn't this an extract from the Words of the Qur'an?

 

[Sophie777]

Or am i an idiot?

 

[sub]

1. On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. (The Cow: 161 )

2. Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. ( The Cow: 15 )

3. The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful, who will not believe. (Spoils of War: 55)

4. Oh ye who believe! the non-Muslims are unclean. (Repentance:17)

5. Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you. (Repentance: 123)

6. Oh believers, do not treat your fathers and mothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief, whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers. (Repentance: 20) 7. Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute. ( Repentance: 29 )

Jou Jou, isn't this an extract from the Words of the Qur'an?

what is sed must be taken in context of when and why they are revealed. u cant isolate certain verses and say these mean as they are in the context u put them in.

 

[sub]

Or am i an idiot?

why do u give an ulitimatum? its not one or the other. u may be mistaken. u make it seem like one or the other, which shouldnt be the case...
im sure ur not an idiot, but that doesnt mean that because u are not, what u say is correct.

 

[Sophie777]

Thanks, but they are still pretty evil verses no matter where they are or in whatever context. It is a very violent and harsh religion in its words and you can't argue with that verse being very violent and evil. I am unclean? No I am not.

And the ultimatum was just a joke. Seriously! you take things so serious, I didn't mean am i an idiot, I mean was i wrong about which religion the Qu'ran was from! Jeez.

 

[Sophie777]

why do u give an ulitimatum? its not one or the other. u may be mistaken. u make it seem like one or the other, which shouldnt be the case...
im sure ur not an idiot, but that doesnt mean that because u are not, what u say is correct.

Shut up. You are being annoying. Don't hang on my every word when yours lack any evidence. All i meant was, am i wrong? ANYWAY, in addition to this, my question was whether they were out of the Quran, hence how could I be incorrect if they are? It was merely a question.

 

[Sophie777]

JouJou, can you explain to me, as i don't know much, how this cannot be as it is? How, in context of the entire book, could it be any different?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

what is sed must be taken in context of when and why they are revealed. u cant isolate certain verses and say these mean as they are in the context u put them in.

And who can? A great holyman? who somehow mysteriously knows the answers?
Are there not refuted claims by different sects in islam claiming different 'meanings' of these verses, i'm sure the martyrs like thinking that they're doing allahs duty and that when they die they will be given a special place in paradise....
What makes your meaning any more justified than theirs?

 

[sub]

Thanks, but they are still pretty evil verses no matter where they are or in whatever context. It is a very violent and harsh religion in its words and you can't argue with that verse being very violent and evil. I am unclean? No I am not.

And the ultimatum was just a joke. Seriously! you take things so serious, I didn't mean am i an idiot, I mean was i wrong about which religion the Qu'ran was from! Jeez.

well u cant really tell tone on an internet forum. also making such arguments against one's religion is generally taken to heart.

violent images, yes i can see that from ur perspective, and i cant vouch for them to mean something else offhand. ill have to go check up the context of the verses u selected, however, there is a reason for such things.

i can tell u this tho:
in other parts of the Quran, there are sections which say u must obey ur parents even if they are non-muslim, and even if they are not in the best mental health so long as it doesn't compromise ur islam.

so i cant tell u what or why they were revealed, but it is not right to isolate such phrases and make it seem (even if it was not ur intention) as this is the core message of a religion.

 

[Sophie777]

I didn't say it was the core message at all. In fact I never said that. I isolated the 'orders' of the book from this section. In or out of its context it still says murder non-believers. I don't care what section it was in. How many people follow this religion and follow on every word? That is absolutely awful to be allowing such terrible directions to be globally circulated.

I can make an argument against your religion if it impedes on my ability to live happily as a human being considering orders given to you that I am 'unclean' and should be murdered or coerced into believing.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

From the.. guide to setting up your own religion..

Wide Coverage
The beliefs should be reasonably vague and ambiguous, to allow as many people as possible to find something in them that is acceptable. If you restrict the meme to a strict, clear definition it will never get very widespread. It needs to include elements which range from very touchy-feely, liberal to extremely hard-line, no compromise positions. This allows some people to perceive the belief as nice, gentle and uplifting but also allows room for those with extremist outlooks. You want to get everyone from tree-hugging hippies to crazed paranoid gunmen.

Preferably, as many possible points of view should be catered for, even those that appear to contradict one another. People can then refer to other members of the belief as "not real believers, not like us". It should be as inclusive as possible, while allowing all included groups to feel that it excludes all the other ones.

Sounds kinda like what's going on doesn't it? in both islam and christianity?