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Israel and Palestine (1 Viewer)
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MaNiElla
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Re: Israel & Palestine
Also you can call me that all you want, because i believe that im not, and thats all that matters. I wont accept any more accusations from you lot, and i certainly dont care if you, or anyone else accusess me of being anti-semite, because once again, I believe that im not, and no one here is going to change my belief
Also nathan, I dont bring up the torah, religion and rabbi's, and no i dont bring up the jews in everypost of mine. I just metioned the Rabbi's in my last 2 posts because you and others here were saying that everyone is supporting Israel except arabs. SO, this was supposed to make it clear that there are some jews out there who also dont support israel, even if they are only a small inferior group. I dont get why you and other's are facing some difficulties in comprehending that.
Why would you want to know my views on the halocaust?? you made it clear yesterday, that you're not interested in what i say. You clearly said that you dont follow the links in my posts (im sure that your not alone, and that your buddies dont read them too). u's simply refuse to read the truth, its fine with me, but next time dont come here to attack me blindly if you have never bothered yourself to read what i have to say. Therefore, I dont find it necessary for you or others to know my views on that matter.
Also, dont bother yourself to ask me to provide sources anymore, whats the point if you never bother to read them??
ahahahaha, please stop using that really really stupid "you are a anti-semite" contrivance (this applies to you, atilla, and britney). Im sick of always hearing you zionists here always saying and ranting, the "you are a anti-semite" accusation to everyone. Its getting oh-so boring nownathan71088 said:
Also you can call me that all you want, because i believe that im not, and thats all that matters. I wont accept any more accusations from you lot, and i certainly dont care if you, or anyone else accusess me of being anti-semite, because once again, I believe that im not, and no one here is going to change my belief Also nathan, I dont bring up the torah, religion and rabbi's, and no i dont bring up the jews in everypost of mine
. I just metioned the Rabbi's in my last 2 posts because you and others here were saying that everyone is supporting Israel except arabs. SO, this was supposed to make it clear that there are some jews out there who also dont support israel, even if they are only a small inferior group. I dont get why you and other's are facing some difficulties in comprehending that.You know what?? I LOL'd like so hard when i reaad that!!nathan71088 said:
Why would you want to know my views on the halocaust?? you made it clear yesterday, that you're not interested in what i say. You clearly said that you dont follow the links in my posts (im sure that your not alone, and that your buddies dont read them too). u's simply refuse to read the truth, its fine with me, but next time dont come here to attack me blindly if you have never bothered yourself to read what i have to say. Therefore, I dont find it necessary for you or others to know my views on that matter.
Also, dont bother yourself to ask me to provide sources anymore, whats the point if you never bother to read them??
mr EaZy
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Re: Israel & Palestine
i cant follow what's been going on:
lemme say this:
both jews and arabs/palestinians were in existence in the land of palestine in 1900. Weisman was of the opinion that the arabs by far outnumbered the jews
read the extract from Leopold weiss' autobiography when he met dr weiss
http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/m_asad_04.shtml
for an alternative version of history to what MEMRI and JEWISHVIRTUALLIB and other zionist doctored "objective" resources
go here:
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story412.html
haven't read all of it myself,
i cant follow what's been going on:
lemme say this:
both jews and arabs/palestinians were in existence in the land of palestine in 1900. Weisman was of the opinion that the arabs by far outnumbered the jews
read the extract from Leopold weiss' autobiography when he met dr weiss
http://www.welcome-back.org/profile/m_asad_04.shtml
for an alternative version of history to what MEMRI and JEWISHVIRTUALLIB and other zionist doctored "objective" resources
go here:
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story412.html
haven't read all of it myself,
Re: Israel & Palestine
tempco, the anti-semitic (anti-jewish) = anti - zionist argument requires a flow of points. the belief begins with a few axioms, that if are accepted, then the satement is true, and if not, then you wont think so.
1) do you believe that the jews were in clear and present danger before israel existed? y/n?
2) do you then believe that following the creation of israel, worldwide jewry faced an increase in security and safety? y/n?
3) do you then equate that the creation of israel and its subsequent existance and actions lead to the safety and security of jews around the world? y/n?
4) if you answer yes to the previous continuum of questions then it leads to this point...
if israel is responsible for the worldwide safety and security of the jewish people worldwide, then saying that you want to destroy it is saying that you want to create danger for the jewish people worldwide. remove the cause, and the effect changes or is destroyed. so if the belief is that, (and i believe truly so) that israel represents safety for the majority of jews around the world, then the removal of the state means the removal of that protection. which is an anti-jewish idea.
tempco, the anti-semitic (anti-jewish) = anti - zionist argument requires a flow of points. the belief begins with a few axioms, that if are accepted, then the satement is true, and if not, then you wont think so.
1) do you believe that the jews were in clear and present danger before israel existed? y/n?
2) do you then believe that following the creation of israel, worldwide jewry faced an increase in security and safety? y/n?
3) do you then equate that the creation of israel and its subsequent existance and actions lead to the safety and security of jews around the world? y/n?
4) if you answer yes to the previous continuum of questions then it leads to this point...
if israel is responsible for the worldwide safety and security of the jewish people worldwide, then saying that you want to destroy it is saying that you want to create danger for the jewish people worldwide. remove the cause, and the effect changes or is destroyed. so if the belief is that, (and i believe truly so) that israel represents safety for the majority of jews around the world, then the removal of the state means the removal of that protection. which is an anti-jewish idea.
nathan71088
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Re: Israel & Palestine
97%tempco said:
nathan71088
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Re: Israel & Palestine
In response to a request for sources about Camp David 2000:
This source seems to be more supportive of Israel so read it with that in mind, read the about us section and you'll see that it doesnt explicitly state a position but then it doesn't condemn Israel so I guess it's more supportive:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2000.php
This source talks about the 97% item of contention. Be reminded though, this is definitely a Pro-Israel site, it gives facts but if you are in opposition to Israel you will disagree with these:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/cd2000art.html
This source seems more neutral as it provides the conditions that Israel placed to make the Palestinian state work. If you are in opposition to Israel you will find these as faults with the plan...:
http://www.mideastweb.org/campdavid2.htm
This article gives the other side of the spectrum on Camp David so you can make up your mind. It sorta starts going on about Oslo and the present but considering I gave facts from one perspective it's good to see how the other side viewed these:
http://mondediplo.com/2000/12/12campdavid
This definitely gives the other side of the argument. Any questions one could have of the Palestinian side are answered here in support of the Palestinians. You decide on their credibility:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html
Now you have both side's opinions. I don't have the official documents so I can't give primary evidence of what is true because as you can see both sides say something different. It's up to you to make a decision, obviously in my opinion, one side had the right idea and the other rejected it but if you agree with the last source you'll tell me I'm wrong.
I took the hard work out of finding sources to disagree with me but lets face it: who could be bothered reading all that...oh well, at least you can't say I skimp on sources.
In response to a request for sources about Camp David 2000:
This source seems to be more supportive of Israel so read it with that in mind, read the about us section and you'll see that it doesnt explicitly state a position but then it doesn't condemn Israel so I guess it's more supportive:
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2000.php
This source talks about the 97% item of contention. Be reminded though, this is definitely a Pro-Israel site, it gives facts but if you are in opposition to Israel you will disagree with these:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/cd2000art.html
This source seems more neutral as it provides the conditions that Israel placed to make the Palestinian state work. If you are in opposition to Israel you will find these as faults with the plan...:
http://www.mideastweb.org/campdavid2.htm
This article gives the other side of the spectrum on Camp David so you can make up your mind. It sorta starts going on about Oslo and the present but considering I gave facts from one perspective it's good to see how the other side viewed these:
http://mondediplo.com/2000/12/12campdavid
This definitely gives the other side of the argument. Any questions one could have of the Palestinian side are answered here in support of the Palestinians. You decide on their credibility:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html
Now you have both side's opinions. I don't have the official documents so I can't give primary evidence of what is true because as you can see both sides say something different. It's up to you to make a decision, obviously in my opinion, one side had the right idea and the other rejected it but if you agree with the last source you'll tell me I'm wrong.
I took the hard work out of finding sources to disagree with me but lets face it: who could be bothered reading all that...oh well, at least you can't say I skimp on sources.
Atilla89
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Re: Israel & Palestine
“Whoa!! Now that's even way more pathetic then you rejecting them, LMFAO. So you're practically saying that a huge movement such as the Chasidic movement is actually rejecting and not allowing the small inferior NK sect (who according to you make up less then 2% of jews against Zionism) only because they are against the Zionist movement? ”
NO, I am saying that they are rejected because they are against the interests of the Jewish community. Agreeing with the sworn enemy of Judaism is treason, I think by any standards that is enough to move away and disassociate with this group.
“These zionist really do use the terms "anti-semitic" and "anti-zionists" as political tools.”
Ant that’s is supposed to mean what exactly?
“That’s seriously malice and hatred towards non-zionists, let it be jews or non-jews, in its purest form ”
Nah, I wouldn’t call it hatred, more like a serious dislike to those people who believe that Jews shouldn’t have a homeland.
“Edit: if you really want to know why the Rabbi's from the NK sect held a halocaust denial meeting with the iranian president, i advice you to read
this ---> http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ra...tes/gifter.cfm”
Do you want to know why they went to Iran? It’s very simple, they are a tiny, loony and radical sect of the Jewish community who want attention because they believe that Zionism is wrong, which it clearly isn’t.
“Whoa!! Now that's even way more pathetic then you rejecting them, LMFAO. So you're practically saying that a huge movement such as the Chasidic movement is actually rejecting and not allowing the small inferior NK sect (who according to you make up less then 2% of jews against Zionism) only because they are against the Zionist movement? ”
NO, I am saying that they are rejected because they are against the interests of the Jewish community. Agreeing with the sworn enemy of Judaism is treason, I think by any standards that is enough to move away and disassociate with this group.
“These zionist really do use the terms "anti-semitic" and "anti-zionists" as political tools.”
Ant that’s is supposed to mean what exactly?
“That’s seriously malice and hatred towards non-zionists, let it be jews or non-jews, in its purest form ”
Nah, I wouldn’t call it hatred, more like a serious dislike to those people who believe that Jews shouldn’t have a homeland.
“Edit: if you really want to know why the Rabbi's from the NK sect held a halocaust denial meeting with the iranian president, i advice you to read
this ---> http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ra...tes/gifter.cfm”
Do you want to know why they went to Iran? It’s very simple, they are a tiny, loony and radical sect of the Jewish community who want attention because they believe that Zionism is wrong, which it clearly isn’t.
onebytwo
Recession '08
Re: Israel & Palestine
everybody deserves a safe and secure homeland, but just because the treatment of one population by a dirty ruler (ie hitler on jews) is horrible, doesnt warrant the displacement and eviction of another people from their homes (palestinians).
The iraqis have suffered tremendously under sadam, (although to a lesser extent than the jews did under hitler), do you support the proposition that iraqis should have a new safe and secure homeland in place of israel, called iraqistan, and the israelis forcibly displaced?
do you believe the palestinians were and still are in clear and present danger after israel was created?JayB said:
do you then believe that palestinians were faced with a decrease in safety and security?JayB said:
do you then equate that at the creation of israel and beyond, actions have lead to reduced safety for palestinians?JayB said:
everybody deserves a safe and secure homeland, but just because the treatment of one population by a dirty ruler (ie hitler on jews) is horrible, doesnt warrant the displacement and eviction of another people from their homes (palestinians).
The iraqis have suffered tremendously under sadam, (although to a lesser extent than the jews did under hitler), do you support the proposition that iraqis should have a new safe and secure homeland in place of israel, called iraqistan, and the israelis forcibly displaced?
Atilla89
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Re: Israel & Palestine
Lol!!! You believe you're not an anti-semite yet your words speak the exact opposite. Do you have a split personality or something? Really you should read your own posts, because it has become quite clear just what an anti-semite you are.
Nice, generalisation, I have noticed that it has formed the majority of your arguements, why do you deal in mistruths?
Truth? You talk of truth! Don't make me laugh, you're truth comes from a loony fringe group who rejects Zionism as opposed to every other Jew in the world!
MaNiElla said:ahahahaha, please stop using that really really stupid "you are a anti-semite" contrivance (this applies to you, atilla, and britney). Im sick of always hearing you zionists here always saying and ranting, the "you are a anti-semite" accusation to everyone. Its getting oh-so boring now
Lol!!! You believe you're not an anti-semite yet your words speak the exact opposite. Do you have a split personality or something? Really you should read your own posts, because it has become quite clear just what an anti-semite you are.
You can live in denial all you want, but it won't change your beliefs.MaNiElla said:I wont accept any more accusations from you lot, and i certainly dont care if you, or anyone else accusess me of being anti-semite, because once again, I believe that im not, and no one here is going to change my belief
You bring up a very small fringe group of Jews who number about 5,000. Good work! You seem to keep forgetting that these people do not represent the Jewish community and have been fully rejected by the Chasidic movement. Why bring up a Jewish source if it has become clear that just about every Jew is Zionist.MaNiElla said:
MaNiElla said:
Nice, generalisation, I have noticed that it has formed the majority of your arguements, why do you deal in mistruths?
MaNiElla said:
MaNiElla said:
Truth? You talk of truth! Don't make me laugh, you're truth comes from a loony fringe group who rejects Zionism as opposed to every other Jew in the world!
Lol, know you're trying to conduct an arguement without sources? Yeah, I can tell we have a top class debator here, lol. As well as this, you make generalisations of people not reading your sources - I ask you, how do you know that? Oh wait, you don't! Lol, your debating skills are pitiful!MaNiElla said:Also, dont bother yourself to ask me to provide sources anymore, whats the point if you never bother to read them??
Atilla89
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Re: Israel & Palestine
“Do you believe the Palestinians were and still are in clear and present danger after israel was created?”
No they are not. They were given the chance to have a state alongside Israel, they refused for some reason…At the moment, the only people that are in danger are those who wish to harm Israel and their supporters.
“Do you then believe that Palestinians were faced with a decrease in safety and security?”
I love it, you answer a question with a question when it clearly asks for a yes or no… Anyway the Palestinians only faced a decrease in security because they decided to launch terror attacks into Israel.
“Do you then equate that at the creation of Israel and beyond, actions have lead to reduced safety for Palestinians?”
The only thing that has led to reduced security for the Palestinians is their insistence on ‘resistance’, e.g. terror attacks.
“Everybody deserves a safe and secure homeland, but just because the treatment of one population by a dirty ruler (ie hitler on jews) is horrible, doesnt warrant the displacement and eviction of another people from their homes (palestinians).”
Haha, did you actually read my previous post on how the Palestinians weren’t displaced? Check the URL.
“The iraqis have suffered tremendously under sadam, (although to a lesser extent than the jews did under hitler), do you support the proposition that iraqis should have a new safe and secure homeland in place of israel, called iraqistan, and the israelis forcibly displaced?”
WTF are you on about? The Iraqis have a home land, it is called Iraq you idiot. Why would any of them want to move? Really, were you drunk when you wrote this?
“Do you believe the Palestinians were and still are in clear and present danger after israel was created?”
No they are not. They were given the chance to have a state alongside Israel, they refused for some reason…At the moment, the only people that are in danger are those who wish to harm Israel and their supporters.
“Do you then believe that Palestinians were faced with a decrease in safety and security?”
I love it, you answer a question with a question when it clearly asks for a yes or no… Anyway the Palestinians only faced a decrease in security because they decided to launch terror attacks into Israel.
“Do you then equate that at the creation of Israel and beyond, actions have lead to reduced safety for Palestinians?”
The only thing that has led to reduced security for the Palestinians is their insistence on ‘resistance’, e.g. terror attacks.
“Everybody deserves a safe and secure homeland, but just because the treatment of one population by a dirty ruler (ie hitler on jews) is horrible, doesnt warrant the displacement and eviction of another people from their homes (palestinians).”
Haha, did you actually read my previous post on how the Palestinians weren’t displaced? Check the URL.
“The iraqis have suffered tremendously under sadam, (although to a lesser extent than the jews did under hitler), do you support the proposition that iraqis should have a new safe and secure homeland in place of israel, called iraqistan, and the israelis forcibly displaced?”
WTF are you on about? The Iraqis have a home land, it is called Iraq you idiot. Why would any of them want to move? Really, were you drunk when you wrote this?
onebytwo
Recession '08
Re: Israel & Palestine
atilla learnt to use quote tags!
hooray, now i can start reading his posts!
EDIT: oh shit, i was wrong
atilla learnt to use quote tags!hooray, now i can start reading his posts!
EDIT: oh shit, i was wrong
onebytwo
Recession '08
Re: Israel & Palestine
dude, they feel as though they had their land stolen, you dont negotiate with your thief. if oyur home was stolen, you dont settle with having your backyard back only, you want the whole thingAtilla89 said:
do you believe an individual would be compelled to murder upon a relatives death? what, in your opinion, is the cause of terror attacks? heck, if some foreign soldier killed a member of my family, id go a lot further than some bombing, wouldnt you?Atilla89 said:
uhhh...terror....um....terrorist.....err...security......Atilla89 said:
no i didnt, so what happened to the occupants of what is israel today? did they not flee their homes?Atilla89 said:
many jews had homelands across europe including germany, why would any of them wanted to have moved? why create israel?Atilla89 said:
Last edited:
sam04u
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Re: Israel & Palestine
What has anybody in this thread said which would lead you to believe that they were Anti-Semites? I think the majority of the people who are debating in this thread are Semites (Whether they're Jew or Arabs.) I think only one thing has clearly been established, and that is that BritneySpears is racist and ignorant. Also, that the majority of your arguments are based on deflecting the questions which are asked and conjecture. (You provide little evidence of what you have said and instead counter arguments using irrelevant information.
It's not her beliefs. Who are you to judge whether a Semite is an Anti-Semite, whether a Rabbi is Anti-Judaic or anything else for that matter? From now on, before you throw out any accusations (ad hominem) like accusing other of being Anti-Semitic or having MPD (Multiple Personality Disorders) explain the relevance to the thread and the proof (most importantly)
Ofcourse not. When 5,000 Jews or Israelis hold a belief it is irrelevant and not representative of the entire population. But when less than 5,000 Muslims or Palestinians hold a belief, it becomes grounds for generalising the whole population. (Double Standards?)
I don't believe every Jew believes that the Jewish people deserve a home at the expense of 5,000,000 Palestinians suffering and being displaced from their homes. (Which they've lived in for over 30 generations.)
Regardless, whether every Jew thinks it's fair and justified is beside the point. That's like going to the Italians after they got the penalty kick in the last world cup and asking whether it was a good call. A small minority would disagree, and those would ofcourse be the most trustworthy. (Bare in mind they went on to win the World Cup.) The majority of the Italians would think it was great, and they would think the referee was fair.
It's hard to argue with imbeciles? When you bring perhaps the most biased sources on the internet, and then criticise her source which is much more reliable (It was Jewish-led right?) That's just hypocrisy and more evidence of your double-standards. Just remember, you're not the judge on this issue. Untill you start reading her sources, I will not be reading your sources. (I'll claim as you have that they're biased and made by Zionists.)
More ad-hominem. (Use your dictionary on that one.)
I think I've figured out what you do when you cant counter somebodies argument. You try to attack the person and use cheap insults which are very generalised and not even directed at parts of her posts. Well atleast I'll be able to explain myself when I do it. You're too pathetic and moronic to counter other peoples arguments so instead you accuse them of being Anti-Semites or attack them.
sam04u
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Re: Israel & Palestine
False hope! (He writes his arguments using Microsoft Word or another Word Processor. I'm just judging by the quotation marks he uses.)onebytwo said:
hooray, now i can start reading his posts!
EDIT: oh shit, i was wrong
Atilla89
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Re: Israel & Palestine
“dude, they feel as though they had their land stolen, you dont negotiate with your thief. if oyur home was stolen, you dont settle with having your backyard back only, you want the whole thing”
…http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ths/mf2.html#e I am going to say one word that should settle this issue and addresses all my arguments on this issue, READ!
As for Maniella, if you ever do click on the links I send out, (which I doubt) you
will notice if you scroll up a few times that it actually wasn’t the Zionists who stranded the Jews, it was the British (yes I read your loony article about Zionism from JewsagainstZionism and it was complete and utter tosh).
“Do you believe an individual would be compelled to murder upon a relatives death?”
They might it totally depends on the personality of that person. If you are asking me specifically, no, it is a matter entirely for the Police and it is not my place to impose judgment on somebody else.
“What, in your opinion, is the cause of terror attacks? heck, if some foreign soldier killed a member of my family, I’d go a lot further than some bombing, wouldn’t you?
The causes of the terror attacks are quite simple. It’s not what Israel has done, because if we go back to the first few hours of Israel’s history you will find that it was the Arabs who tried to wipe Israel out. The cause is of Israel itself, these people can’t except there is a state called Israel, this generation of Palestinians are educated to hate Jews and Israelis, even their fellow Arabs. Just look at the cartoon of Farfur, that is the real reason these people launch terrorist attacks. As to the last part, you can’t simply put that question and apply it to Israel, it is not that black and white ê even if you wish it was.
“uhhh...terror....um....terrorist.....err...securit y......”
You want to play dumb? That’s fine. I doubt it’s a break in your routine.
“No i didnt, so what happened to the occupants of what is israel today? did they not flee their homes?”
Just check the URL out, I’ve explained this issue too many times. Its on the previous page I think.
“Many Jews had homelands across Europe including Germany, why would any of them wanted to have moved? why create Israel?”
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, so I will answer this question in all seriousness. Many Jews had homelands across Europe however during 1939-45, many of these homes were destroyed or taken over by other people while Jews were dyeing in the Camps. When these Jews got back and realised just how widespread the Holocaust was (many of their family members dead, some were now themselves) they wanted to leave and move to any other country they could. Who wants to stay in a place where so many of their kinsman had been murdered? Why do you think there are so little Jews in Europe now? Why do you think America, Australia and South Africa (although not much there now) have such a huge Jewish population? As well as moving to these countries, many moved to the Mandate of Palestine, thus Israel was born (the short history). Israel was created as a response to the anti-Semitism in Europe and the need for a homeland (and safe haven) for Jews.
“dude, they feel as though they had their land stolen, you dont negotiate with your thief. if oyur home was stolen, you dont settle with having your backyard back only, you want the whole thing”
…http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ths/mf2.html#e I am going to say one word that should settle this issue and addresses all my arguments on this issue, READ!
As for Maniella, if you ever do click on the links I send out, (which I doubt) you
will notice if you scroll up a few times that it actually wasn’t the Zionists who stranded the Jews, it was the British (yes I read your loony article about Zionism from JewsagainstZionism and it was complete and utter tosh).
“Do you believe an individual would be compelled to murder upon a relatives death?”
They might it totally depends on the personality of that person. If you are asking me specifically, no, it is a matter entirely for the Police and it is not my place to impose judgment on somebody else.
“What, in your opinion, is the cause of terror attacks? heck, if some foreign soldier killed a member of my family, I’d go a lot further than some bombing, wouldn’t you?
The causes of the terror attacks are quite simple. It’s not what Israel has done, because if we go back to the first few hours of Israel’s history you will find that it was the Arabs who tried to wipe Israel out. The cause is of Israel itself, these people can’t except there is a state called Israel, this generation of Palestinians are educated to hate Jews and Israelis, even their fellow Arabs. Just look at the cartoon of Farfur, that is the real reason these people launch terrorist attacks. As to the last part, you can’t simply put that question and apply it to Israel, it is not that black and white ê even if you wish it was.
“uhhh...terror....um....terrorist.....err...securit y......”
You want to play dumb? That’s fine. I doubt it’s a break in your routine.
“No i didnt, so what happened to the occupants of what is israel today? did they not flee their homes?”
Just check the URL out, I’ve explained this issue too many times. Its on the previous page I think.
“Many Jews had homelands across Europe including Germany, why would any of them wanted to have moved? why create Israel?”
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, so I will answer this question in all seriousness. Many Jews had homelands across Europe however during 1939-45, many of these homes were destroyed or taken over by other people while Jews were dyeing in the Camps. When these Jews got back and realised just how widespread the Holocaust was (many of their family members dead, some were now themselves) they wanted to leave and move to any other country they could. Who wants to stay in a place where so many of their kinsman had been murdered? Why do you think there are so little Jews in Europe now? Why do you think America, Australia and South Africa (although not much there now) have such a huge Jewish population? As well as moving to these countries, many moved to the Mandate of Palestine, thus Israel was born (the short history). Israel was created as a response to the anti-Semitism in Europe and the need for a homeland (and safe haven) for Jews.
Atilla89
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Re: Israel & Palestine
“What has anybody in this thread said which would lead you to believe that they were Anti-Semites?”
The fact that you have said Israel should not exist…That gives me a clue.
“I think the majority of the people who are debating in this thread are Semites (Whether they're Jew or Arabs.)”
You really don’t seem to understand the term anti-Semitic, do you? If you take it apart then yes it means against Semites including Arabs. However the word as NOW used as a synonym for Jew hated.
“Also, that the majority of your arguments are based on deflecting the questions which are asked and conjecture. (You provide little evidence of what you have said and instead counter arguments using irrelevant information.”
Actually my arguments just take apart the other persons arguments, show the problems in their arguments and then offer a counter argument. For example read above
“It's not her beliefs. Who are you to judge whether a Semite is an Anti-Semite, whether a Rabbi is Anti-Judaic or anything else for that matter? From now on, before you throw out any accusations (ad hominem) like accusing other of being Anti-Semitic or having MPD (Multiple Personality Disorders) explain the relevance to the thread and the proof (most importantly)”
My bad, she can live in denial all she wants but she is still an anti-Semite. Just because a person doesn’t believe they are an anti-Semite, doesn’t mean they are. If someone puts out their personality for attack, then attacking it is not an ad hominem, it’s a legit argument. If however I was to start attacking her perceived personality out of the blue, then yes it would be an ad hominem.
"Of course not. When 5,000 Jews or Israelis hold a belief it is irrelevant and not representative of the entire population."
Because they clearly don’t and have been rejected by the Jewish community. Their only purpose in life is to create controversy and show support for the likes of people like Ahminajad.
“But when less than 5,000 Muslims or Palestinians hold a belief, it becomes grounds for generalising the whole population. (Double Standards?)”
If this is a reference to Mien Kampf, why is it a best seller? Why are the protocol of the elders of zion best sellers in the Arab world? These are clearly anti-Semitic books which instigate hatred against Jews, double standard? I think not.
“I don't believe every Jew believes that the Jewish people deserve a home at the expense of 5,000,000 Palestinians suffering and being displaced from their homes. (Which they've lived in for over 30 generations.)”
OMG, you can keep saying this when I have clearly defeated the argument, really you need to check back on my previous posts. These people clearly were not pushed from their homes. Anyway, you are right, only less then 2% of Jews believe that Jews should not have a homeland in Israel. Congrats.
“Regardless, whether every Jew thinks it's fair and justified is beside the point.”
No, what is besides the point here is that this fringe group is in the wrong and has been rejected by the other ultra-Orthodox communities and sects for a reason. They are in the wrong. Easy to understand?
"It's hard to argue with imbeciles? When you bring perhaps the most biased sources on the internet, and then criticise her source which is much more reliable (It was Jewish-led right?)"
No, I was just criticizing her for stating that from know on she will not use sources. Her source was Jewish led, that is true; but it’s reliability is a totally different thing, check the point above^. On the other hand I consistently give mainstream sources, Jewish Library, MEMRI…
“Just remember, you're not the judge on this issue. Untill you start reading her sources, I will not be reading your sources. (I'll claim as you have that they're biased and made by Zionists.)”
More ad hominem? You claim I do read her sources when I clearly do and form arguments against them. But you not reading mine? How do you expect to debate? Lol, never knew I was dealing with such stupid people (if you can call me an imbecile then I feel like I can call you an idiot).
“More ad-hominem. (Use your dictionary on that one.)”
I feel that if someone wants to say something as stupid as I am not going to use sources in my debates, then the comment was justified.
“I think I've figured out what you do when you can’t counter somebody’s argument. You try to attack the person and use cheap insults which are very generalised and not even directed at parts of her posts. Well at least I'll be able to explain myself when I do it. You're too pathetic and moronic to counter other peoples arguments so instead you accuse them of being Anti-Semites or attack them.”
Don’t you just love when you accuse people of an ad hominem? You clearly think you know me, but you don’t.
“What has anybody in this thread said which would lead you to believe that they were Anti-Semites?”
The fact that you have said Israel should not exist…That gives me a clue.
“I think the majority of the people who are debating in this thread are Semites (Whether they're Jew or Arabs.)”
You really don’t seem to understand the term anti-Semitic, do you? If you take it apart then yes it means against Semites including Arabs. However the word as NOW used as a synonym for Jew hated.
“Also, that the majority of your arguments are based on deflecting the questions which are asked and conjecture. (You provide little evidence of what you have said and instead counter arguments using irrelevant information.”
Actually my arguments just take apart the other persons arguments, show the problems in their arguments and then offer a counter argument. For example read above
“It's not her beliefs. Who are you to judge whether a Semite is an Anti-Semite, whether a Rabbi is Anti-Judaic or anything else for that matter? From now on, before you throw out any accusations (ad hominem) like accusing other of being Anti-Semitic or having MPD (Multiple Personality Disorders) explain the relevance to the thread and the proof (most importantly)”
My bad, she can live in denial all she wants but she is still an anti-Semite. Just because a person doesn’t believe they are an anti-Semite, doesn’t mean they are. If someone puts out their personality for attack, then attacking it is not an ad hominem, it’s a legit argument. If however I was to start attacking her perceived personality out of the blue, then yes it would be an ad hominem.
"Of course not. When 5,000 Jews or Israelis hold a belief it is irrelevant and not representative of the entire population."
Because they clearly don’t and have been rejected by the Jewish community. Their only purpose in life is to create controversy and show support for the likes of people like Ahminajad.
“But when less than 5,000 Muslims or Palestinians hold a belief, it becomes grounds for generalising the whole population. (Double Standards?)”
If this is a reference to Mien Kampf, why is it a best seller? Why are the protocol of the elders of zion best sellers in the Arab world? These are clearly anti-Semitic books which instigate hatred against Jews, double standard? I think not.
“I don't believe every Jew believes that the Jewish people deserve a home at the expense of 5,000,000 Palestinians suffering and being displaced from their homes. (Which they've lived in for over 30 generations.)”
OMG, you can keep saying this when I have clearly defeated the argument, really you need to check back on my previous posts. These people clearly were not pushed from their homes. Anyway, you are right, only less then 2% of Jews believe that Jews should not have a homeland in Israel. Congrats.
“Regardless, whether every Jew thinks it's fair and justified is beside the point.”
No, what is besides the point here is that this fringe group is in the wrong and has been rejected by the other ultra-Orthodox communities and sects for a reason. They are in the wrong. Easy to understand?
"It's hard to argue with imbeciles? When you bring perhaps the most biased sources on the internet, and then criticise her source which is much more reliable (It was Jewish-led right?)"
No, I was just criticizing her for stating that from know on she will not use sources. Her source was Jewish led, that is true; but it’s reliability is a totally different thing, check the point above^. On the other hand I consistently give mainstream sources, Jewish Library, MEMRI…
“Just remember, you're not the judge on this issue. Untill you start reading her sources, I will not be reading your sources. (I'll claim as you have that they're biased and made by Zionists.)”
More ad hominem? You claim I do read her sources when I clearly do and form arguments against them. But you not reading mine? How do you expect to debate? Lol, never knew I was dealing with such stupid people (if you can call me an imbecile then I feel like I can call you an idiot).
“More ad-hominem. (Use your dictionary on that one.)”
I feel that if someone wants to say something as stupid as I am not going to use sources in my debates, then the comment was justified.
“I think I've figured out what you do when you can’t counter somebody’s argument. You try to attack the person and use cheap insults which are very generalised and not even directed at parts of her posts. Well at least I'll be able to explain myself when I do it. You're too pathetic and moronic to counter other peoples arguments so instead you accuse them of being Anti-Semites or attack them.”
Don’t you just love when you accuse people of an ad hominem? You clearly think you know me, but you don’t.
sam04u
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Re: Israel & Palestine
“What, in your opinion, is the cause of terror attacks? heck, if some foreign soldier killed a member of my family, I’d go a lot further than some bombing, wouldn’t you?
From herein your argument is faced with many logical inconsistancies. Because one people had suffered under the hands of European governments, they then return a fraction of this to the Palestinian people? (Who had nothing to do with the attrocities of the Holocaust. Infact, they did nothing wrong whatsoever. And then the Jewish people displace them, taking their homes and they're made to be Refugees.)
Do you understand what we're saying? Where did these attrocities happen? What do they have to do with the Palestinian people?? [Answer these questions. Don't deflect them anymore.]
It's all psychobabble really, if that's your final word on the situation (based on an outside source, without any actual arguments or points from that take on the situation, than your assertion into this thread is minimal. Seperate that source and quote parts of the argument that you want us to disprove or counter. The fact remains that European Jews came into Palestine and displaced people who were living there for 30 generations. They were also made refugees and scattered throughout the world.
The British stranded Jews? I recall it was completely different, with the introduction of the "white paper" European and Middle-Eastern Jews flocked to the Palestinians peoples land displacing them.
What part of the article is disputable? What part do you disagree with. What makes it "tosh"? Justify your comments otherwise they seem like incoherent conjecture.
How about if it was the Police who commited this injustice on you? And the criminals were given the right and power to kill and discredit you with lies and deceit. Then what would you do?
“What, in your opinion, is the cause of terror attacks? heck, if some foreign soldier killed a member of my family, I’d go a lot further than some bombing, wouldn’t you?
Are you saying that Israel's existance doesn't do anything to the Middle-East? I think you're forgetting exactly what the displacing of millions of Palestinians did to Jordan and Lebanon. (Upto a 10-20% increase in population. Most of which have no homes or food. That would inevitably put a massive strain on the economy of the country. That aside, the effects of Israeli's existance is displacing the nation which existed before it did.
It is the Palestinian peoples right to defend their country against a foreign 'invasion'. It's illogical and unjustifiable for one country to be created within another, especially when the people aren't natives of the country. (Having coming from Europe and the Middle-East to displace the people who had been living there for 30 generations.)
What a moronic statement. What is "Israel"? It's a Jewish state that was build by displacing the Palestinian people. Why wouldn't they hate the Jewish people that did this to them. Making them refugee's and making them without a country, erasing their cultures and history and made to live in the worst conditions in camps. Would you love the zionists if they put your entire people in that situation?
It is every Palestinian's right to defend their home and country which has been invaded. The real reason why terrorists attack Israel is because it is an illegitimate state which never should have existed. But regardless of mine or anybody elses views it now exists. Since its existance it has launched constant attacks on the Palestinian people in West Bank and Gaza. (Including attacking civilian infrastructure and civilians. According to the very definition of a terrorist attack, the Israeli army have been and continue launching terrorist attack on the people of the Middle-East.)
From herein your argument is faced with many logical inconsistancies. Because one people had suffered under the hands of European governments, they then return a fraction of this to the Palestinian people? (Who had nothing to do with the attrocities of the Holocaust. Infact, they did nothing wrong whatsoever. And then the Jewish people displace them, taking their homes and they're made to be Refugees.)
Do you understand what we're saying? Where did these attrocities happen? What do they have to do with the Palestinian people?? [Answer these questions. Don't deflect them anymore.]
Re: Israel & Palestine
okay, look, the jews bought the land from its owners, or recieved it from its owners, so saying that they've stolen your house or something is ridiculous. if you're going to use an analogy, its more like you're renting a house and someone else buys the house. of course you get kicked out, and it sucks no doubt. but it was never yours to begin with. so you have no right to try and evict the people who bought it fair and square.
okay, look, the jews bought the land from its owners, or recieved it from its owners, so saying that they've stolen your house or something is ridiculous. if you're going to use an analogy, its more like you're renting a house and someone else buys the house. of course you get kicked out, and it sucks no doubt. but it was never yours to begin with. so you have no right to try and evict the people who bought it fair and square.
Re: Israel & Palestine
besides, where do you get off talking about occupation when you live in australia? are in favour of giving the aboriginies their land back? how about just some areas, you know, like most of sydney, but bondi beach will be multinational and transreligious so everyone can enjoy it?
when the PM refuses to say sorry, do we sit and condone the aboriginal people throwing mortar at parliament house? or kirrabilee? and then, finally, do we accept the fact that they come onto a bus and blow themselves up? is that an acceptable response?
besides, where do you get off talking about occupation when you live in australia? are in favour of giving the aboriginies their land back? how about just some areas, you know, like most of sydney, but bondi beach will be multinational and transreligious so everyone can enjoy it?
when the PM refuses to say sorry, do we sit and condone the aboriginal people throwing mortar at parliament house? or kirrabilee? and then, finally, do we accept the fact that they come onto a bus and blow themselves up? is that an acceptable response?
Atilla89
Member
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- 2007
Re: Israel & Palestine
“It's all psychobabble really, if that's your final word on the situation (based on an outside source, without any actual arguments or points from that take on the situation, than your assertion into this thread is minimal.”
Without any factual arguments? I have been stating facts and arguments and as soon as you ask me for a source, I provide. Now you’re saying that it is wrong that I base my arguments on sources? ROFL!
“Seperate that source and quote parts of the argument that you want us to disprove or counter. The fact remains that European Jews came into Palestine and displaced people who were living there for 30 generations. They were also made refugees and scattered throughout the world.”
Disprove the whole thing. Read it and then give me counter arguments against it. Check its sources, really do I have to tell you how to argue? And why do you continue with the same rhetoric? I’ve just given you facts and sources that clearly prove you wrong. You are starting to act like a 2 year old, reciting the same old shit.
“The British stranded Jews? I recall it was completely different, with the introduction of the "white paper" European and Middle-Eastern Jews flocked to the Palestinians peoples land displacing them.”
OMG, please read the source that I provided. But since you appear to be quite thick here you go: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#c (READ)
This one addresses your concerns on the ‘white paper’ http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#b (READ)
If you don’t read these and give counter arguments in you next reply I will assume that you have accepted these as facts, understand?
“What part of the article is disputable? What part do you disagree with. What makes it "tosh"? Justify your comments otherwise they seem like incoherent conjecture.”
Ok, besides the fact that its reliability is about a -10, considering that this group has been rejected by mainstream Judaism (the approx. would be like trying to find out neutral information about John Howard from a Communist, make sense?). Anyway, this Rabbi is trying to make the link that Zionism is the cause of this upsurge of anti-Semitism therefore Zionism is evil. I won’t deny that because of Zionism anti-Semitism has arisen in later years however it must be remembered that Zionism was as a result of anti-Semitism and it’s purpose is to protect Jews by having a state in the land of Israel. The article then goes on to talk about a boat called Patria which was sunk killing 267 people (British and Jews). Know that act was a totally wrong and disgusting thing to do. It began with the Nazi trying to get Jews away from Germany (this was before the death camps which were still secret to everybody except the upper elechons of Nazi leadership). The Zionist illegal immigration organization Mossad Le'Aliya Bet had refused cooperation with the plan because of disputes over the passenger list and funding. The act was carried out by activist factions without consulting more moderate members according to normal procedure, and this caused serious internal divisions that persisted for many years. The article then goes on to talk about the UN resolution which said Zionism = Racism (which was overturned) and then talks about the Ugandan former President Idi Amin for some unknown reason and how he hates Zionism. So basically the article says nothing, gives an example of a terrorist attack which was never agreed upon in the first place and talks about a President who rule was characterised by (direct from the first few lines of Wiki) “…human rights abuses, political repression, sectarian violence and ethnic persecution, in particular with the expulsion of Asians from Uganda, and persecution of the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups. The death toll during Amin's regime probably will never be accurately known. An estimate from the International Commission of Jurists in 1977 is that it was not less than 80,000 and more likely around 300,000. Another estimate, compiled by exile organisations with the help of Amnesty International, put the number killed at 500,000.”
“How about if it was the Police who commited this injustice on you? And the criminals were given the right and power to kill and discredit you with lies and deceit. Then what would you do?”
Your examples are pitiful and in no way describes the situation in Israel. I am not going to even both answering that question.
“Are you saying that Israel's existance doesn't do anything to the Middle-East?”
I am saying that because Israel exists, Arab countries hate Israel. They can’t bear to have a non-Arab state in the middle-east.
“I think you're forgetting exactly what the displacing of millions of Palestinians did to Jordan and Lebanon. (Upto a 10-20% increase in population. Most of which have no homes or food. That would inevitably put a massive strain on the economy of the country.”
I think your forgetting that in 1948 every single Arab country kicked out their Jews with something like 650K coming into Israel. Substantially more then the Arabs leaving Israel. But that is besides the point, and my point above is what we are debating.
“That aside, the effects of Israeli's existance is displacing the nation which existed before it did.”
Drop the line, its not funny and I have shown how wrong it is through sources and facts.
“It is the Palestinian peoples right to defend their country against a foreign 'invasion'.”
Foreign invasion????????? The Palestinians never had a country and they were offered one along side with Israel. How does that give them the right and other Arab countries who had NOTHING to do with situation a right to invade?
“It's illogical and unjustifiable for one country to be created within another, especially when the people aren't natives of the country.”
Exactly what country existed before Israel? The BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE. These people never had a country. BTW what do you think Jordan was created for? That was meant to be the Arab country for Arabs!
“What a moronic statement. What is "Israel"? It's a Jewish state that was build by displacing the Palestinian people.”
Seriously, repeating the same rhetoric is getting you no where.
“Why wouldn't they hate the Jewish people that did this to them. Making them refugee's and making them without a country, erasing their cultures and history and made to live in the worst conditions in camps. Would you love the zionists if they put your entire people in that situation?”
Um, it was their own fault that they are in this situation. If they had not launched a war in ’48, they would have their own country. Once again your point is moot.
“It is every Palestinian's right to defend their home and country which has been invaded.”
You need to stop spreading the lie of the Palestinian being kicked out and being invaded. Its false, I have proven it to you many times now drop it. As to the first half, blowing people up and firing on schools and killing innocent civilians and celebrating about that killing is not resistance ê it is TERRORISM!
“The real reason why terrorists attack Israel is because it is an illegitimate state which never should have existed.”
So know you acknowledge that are terrorists now? Thanks for that. As to the second part, thanks for proving my point that you are anti-Semitic.
“From herein your argument is faced with many logical inconsistancies.”
Lol, can’t wait to see your future arguments.
“Because one people had suffered under the hands of European governments, they then return a fraction of this to the Palestinian people? (Who had nothing to do with the attrocities of the Holocaust. Infact, they did nothing wrong whatsoever. And then the Jewish people displace them, taking their homes and they're made to be Refugees.)”
When have I ever said that the Palestinians had anything to do with the Holocaust? But the rest of your points have been defeated earlier.
“Do you understand what we're saying? Where did these attrocities happen? What do they have to do with the Palestinian people?? [Answer these questions. Don't deflect them anymore.]”
I’m going to answer this question just so you can’t say that I deflect questions. The Holocaust has got nothing to do with the Palestinian people, it never has and I don’t know why your talking about it in this thread.
“It's all psychobabble really, if that's your final word on the situation (based on an outside source, without any actual arguments or points from that take on the situation, than your assertion into this thread is minimal.”
Without any factual arguments? I have been stating facts and arguments and as soon as you ask me for a source, I provide. Now you’re saying that it is wrong that I base my arguments on sources? ROFL!
“Seperate that source and quote parts of the argument that you want us to disprove or counter. The fact remains that European Jews came into Palestine and displaced people who were living there for 30 generations. They were also made refugees and scattered throughout the world.”
Disprove the whole thing. Read it and then give me counter arguments against it. Check its sources, really do I have to tell you how to argue? And why do you continue with the same rhetoric? I’ve just given you facts and sources that clearly prove you wrong. You are starting to act like a 2 year old, reciting the same old shit.
“The British stranded Jews? I recall it was completely different, with the introduction of the "white paper" European and Middle-Eastern Jews flocked to the Palestinians peoples land displacing them.”
OMG, please read the source that I provided. But since you appear to be quite thick here you go: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#c (READ)
This one addresses your concerns on the ‘white paper’ http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#b (READ)
If you don’t read these and give counter arguments in you next reply I will assume that you have accepted these as facts, understand?
“What part of the article is disputable? What part do you disagree with. What makes it "tosh"? Justify your comments otherwise they seem like incoherent conjecture.”
Ok, besides the fact that its reliability is about a -10, considering that this group has been rejected by mainstream Judaism (the approx. would be like trying to find out neutral information about John Howard from a Communist, make sense?). Anyway, this Rabbi is trying to make the link that Zionism is the cause of this upsurge of anti-Semitism therefore Zionism is evil. I won’t deny that because of Zionism anti-Semitism has arisen in later years however it must be remembered that Zionism was as a result of anti-Semitism and it’s purpose is to protect Jews by having a state in the land of Israel. The article then goes on to talk about a boat called Patria which was sunk killing 267 people (British and Jews). Know that act was a totally wrong and disgusting thing to do. It began with the Nazi trying to get Jews away from Germany (this was before the death camps which were still secret to everybody except the upper elechons of Nazi leadership). The Zionist illegal immigration organization Mossad Le'Aliya Bet had refused cooperation with the plan because of disputes over the passenger list and funding. The act was carried out by activist factions without consulting more moderate members according to normal procedure, and this caused serious internal divisions that persisted for many years. The article then goes on to talk about the UN resolution which said Zionism = Racism (which was overturned) and then talks about the Ugandan former President Idi Amin for some unknown reason and how he hates Zionism. So basically the article says nothing, gives an example of a terrorist attack which was never agreed upon in the first place and talks about a President who rule was characterised by (direct from the first few lines of Wiki) “…human rights abuses, political repression, sectarian violence and ethnic persecution, in particular with the expulsion of Asians from Uganda, and persecution of the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups. The death toll during Amin's regime probably will never be accurately known. An estimate from the International Commission of Jurists in 1977 is that it was not less than 80,000 and more likely around 300,000. Another estimate, compiled by exile organisations with the help of Amnesty International, put the number killed at 500,000.”
“How about if it was the Police who commited this injustice on you? And the criminals were given the right and power to kill and discredit you with lies and deceit. Then what would you do?”
Your examples are pitiful and in no way describes the situation in Israel. I am not going to even both answering that question.
“Are you saying that Israel's existance doesn't do anything to the Middle-East?”
I am saying that because Israel exists, Arab countries hate Israel. They can’t bear to have a non-Arab state in the middle-east.
“I think you're forgetting exactly what the displacing of millions of Palestinians did to Jordan and Lebanon. (Upto a 10-20% increase in population. Most of which have no homes or food. That would inevitably put a massive strain on the economy of the country.”
I think your forgetting that in 1948 every single Arab country kicked out their Jews with something like 650K coming into Israel. Substantially more then the Arabs leaving Israel. But that is besides the point, and my point above is what we are debating.
“That aside, the effects of Israeli's existance is displacing the nation which existed before it did.”
Drop the line, its not funny and I have shown how wrong it is through sources and facts.
“It is the Palestinian peoples right to defend their country against a foreign 'invasion'.”
Foreign invasion????????? The Palestinians never had a country and they were offered one along side with Israel. How does that give them the right and other Arab countries who had NOTHING to do with situation a right to invade?
“It's illogical and unjustifiable for one country to be created within another, especially when the people aren't natives of the country.”
Exactly what country existed before Israel? The BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE. These people never had a country. BTW what do you think Jordan was created for? That was meant to be the Arab country for Arabs!
“What a moronic statement. What is "Israel"? It's a Jewish state that was build by displacing the Palestinian people.”
Seriously, repeating the same rhetoric is getting you no where.
“Why wouldn't they hate the Jewish people that did this to them. Making them refugee's and making them without a country, erasing their cultures and history and made to live in the worst conditions in camps. Would you love the zionists if they put your entire people in that situation?”
Um, it was their own fault that they are in this situation. If they had not launched a war in ’48, they would have their own country. Once again your point is moot.
“It is every Palestinian's right to defend their home and country which has been invaded.”
You need to stop spreading the lie of the Palestinian being kicked out and being invaded. Its false, I have proven it to you many times now drop it. As to the first half, blowing people up and firing on schools and killing innocent civilians and celebrating about that killing is not resistance ê it is TERRORISM!
“The real reason why terrorists attack Israel is because it is an illegitimate state which never should have existed.”
So know you acknowledge that are terrorists now? Thanks for that. As to the second part, thanks for proving my point that you are anti-Semitic.
“From herein your argument is faced with many logical inconsistancies.”
Lol, can’t wait to see your future arguments.
“Because one people had suffered under the hands of European governments, they then return a fraction of this to the Palestinian people? (Who had nothing to do with the attrocities of the Holocaust. Infact, they did nothing wrong whatsoever. And then the Jewish people displace them, taking their homes and they're made to be Refugees.)”
When have I ever said that the Palestinians had anything to do with the Holocaust? But the rest of your points have been defeated earlier.
“Do you understand what we're saying? Where did these attrocities happen? What do they have to do with the Palestinian people?? [Answer these questions. Don't deflect them anymore.]”
I’m going to answer this question just so you can’t say that I deflect questions. The Holocaust has got nothing to do with the Palestinian people, it never has and I don’t know why your talking about it in this thread.
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