MaNiElla
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Re: Israel & Palestine
ummmmm do you actually think that your posts look longer when you dont use quote tags??!!!! LOL :rofl: Its ok, we all know that half of that post is not in your own words, so next time, please use quote tags. I personally will ignore your posts from now on, if you dont use the tags. You obviously dont use quote tags because you dont want people to read through all of your posts and discover all the flaws and lies in them. Therefore, i CHALLENGE you to be a good sport and use quote tags, or are you a chicken??Atilla89 said:“It's all psychobabble really, if that's your final word on the situation (based on an outside source, without any actual arguments or points from that take on the situation, than your assertion into this thread is minimal.”
Without any factual arguments? I have been stating facts and arguments and as soon as you ask me for a source, I provide. Now you’re saying that it is wrong that I base my arguments on sources? ROFL!
“Seperate that source and quote parts of the argument that you want us to disprove or counter. The fact remains that European Jews came into Palestine and displaced people who were living there for 30 generations. They were also made refugees and scattered throughout the world.”
Disprove the whole thing. Read it and then give me counter arguments against it. Check its sources, really do I have to tell you how to argue? And why do you continue with the same rhetoric? I’ve just given you facts and sources that clearly prove you wrong. You are starting to act like a 2 year old, reciting the same old shit.
“The British stranded Jews? I recall it was completely different, with the introduction of the "white paper" European and Middle-Eastern Jews flocked to the Palestinians peoples land displacing them.”
OMG, please read the source that I provided. But since you appear to be quite thick here you go: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#c (READ)
This one addresses your concerns on the ‘white paper’ http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf2.html#b (READ)
If you don’t read these and give counter arguments in you next reply I will assume that you have accepted these as facts, understand?
“What part of the article is disputable? What part do you disagree with. What makes it "tosh"? Justify your comments otherwise they seem like incoherent conjecture.”
Ok, besides the fact that its reliability is about a -10, considering that this group has been rejected by mainstream Judaism (the approx. would be like trying to find out neutral information about John Howard from a Communist, make sense?). Anyway, this Rabbi is trying to make the link that Zionism is the cause of this upsurge of anti-Semitism therefore Zionism is evil. I won’t deny that because of Zionism anti-Semitism has arisen in later years however it must be remembered that Zionism was as a result of anti-Semitism and it’s purpose is to protect Jews by having a state in the land of Israel. The article then goes on to talk about a boat called Patria which was sunk killing 267 people (British and Jews). Know that act was a totally wrong and disgusting thing to do. It began with the Nazi trying to get Jews away from Germany (this was before the death camps which were still secret to everybody except the upper elechons of Nazi leadership). The Zionist illegal immigration organization Mossad Le'Aliya Bet had refused cooperation with the plan because of disputes over the passenger list and funding. The act was carried out by activist factions without consulting more moderate members according to normal procedure, and this caused serious internal divisions that persisted for many years. The article then goes on to talk about the UN resolution which said Zionism = Racism (which was overturned) and then talks about the Ugandan former President Idi Amin for some unknown reason and how he hates Zionism. So basically the article says nothing, gives an example of a terrorist attack which was never agreed upon in the first place and talks about a President who rule was characterised by (direct from the first few lines of Wiki) “…human rights abuses, political repression, sectarian violence and ethnic persecution, in particular with the expulsion of Asians from Uganda, and persecution of the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups. The death toll during Amin's regime probably will never be accurately known. An estimate from the International Commission of Jurists in 1977 is that it was not less than 80,000 and more likely around 300,000. Another estimate, compiled by exile organisations with the help of Amnesty International, put the number killed at 500,000.”
“How about if it was the Police who commited this injustice on you? And the criminals were given the right and power to kill and discredit you with lies and deceit. Then what would you do?”
Your examples are pitiful and in no way describes the situation in Israel. I am not going to even both answering that question.
“Are you saying that Israel's existance doesn't do anything to the Middle-East?”
I am saying that because Israel exists, Arab countries hate Israel. They can’t bear to have a non-Arab state in the middle-east.
“I think you're forgetting exactly what the displacing of millions of Palestinians did to Jordan and Lebanon. (Upto a 10-20% increase in population. Most of which have no homes or food. That would inevitably put a massive strain on the economy of the country.”
I think your forgetting that in 1948 every single Arab country kicked out their Jews with something like 650K coming into Israel. Substantially more then the Arabs leaving Israel. But that is besides the point, and my point above is what we are debating.
“That aside, the effects of Israeli's existance is displacing the nation which existed before it did.”
Drop the line, its not funny and I have shown how wrong it is through sources and facts.
“It is the Palestinian peoples right to defend their country against a foreign 'invasion'.”
Foreign invasion????????? The Palestinians never had a country and they were offered one along side with Israel. How does that give them the right and other Arab countries who had NOTHING to do with situation a right to invade?
“It's illogical and unjustifiable for one country to be created within another, especially when the people aren't natives of the country.”
Exactly what country existed before Israel? The BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE. These people never had a country. BTW what do you think Jordan was created for? That was meant to be the Arab country for Arabs!
“What a moronic statement. What is "Israel"? It's a Jewish state that was build by displacing the Palestinian people.”
Seriously, repeating the same rhetoric is getting you no where.
“Why wouldn't they hate the Jewish people that did this to them. Making them refugee's and making them without a country, erasing their cultures and history and made to live in the worst conditions in camps. Would you love the zionists if they put your entire people in that situation?”
Um, it was their own fault that they are in this situation. If they had not launched a war in ’48, they would have their own country. Once again your point is moot.
“It is every Palestinian's right to defend their home and country which has been invaded.”
You need to stop spreading the lie of the Palestinian being kicked out and being invaded. Its false, I have proven it to you many times now drop it. As to the first half, blowing people up and firing on schools and killing innocent civilians and celebrating about that killing is not resistance ê it is TERRORISM!
“The real reason why terrorists attack Israel is because it is an illegitimate state which never should have existed.”
So know you acknowledge that are terrorists now? Thanks for that. As to the second part, thanks for proving my point that you are anti-Semitic.
“From herein your argument is faced with many logical inconsistancies.”
Lol, can’t wait to see your future arguments.
“Because one people had suffered under the hands of European governments, they then return a fraction of this to the Palestinian people? (Who had nothing to do with the attrocities of the Holocaust. Infact, they did nothing wrong whatsoever. And then the Jewish people displace them, taking their homes and they're made to be Refugees.)”
When have I ever said that the Palestinians had anything to do with the Holocaust? But the rest of your points have been defeated earlier.
“Do you understand what we're saying? Where did these attrocities happen? What do they have to do with the Palestinian people?? [Answer these questions. Don't deflect them anymore.]”
I’m going to answer this question just so you can’t say that I deflect questions. The Holocaust has got nothing to do with the Palestinian people, it never has and I don’t know why your talking about it in this thread.