Re: Israel & Palestine
“I think you're in denial about the situation, might be cultural defence or grounded on a religious moral principal which i respect... but i don’t think your ever going to publicly admit that Israel is a source of poverty, desolation and segregation to Palestinians- even the Arab Israelis living in Israel”
I honestly don’t get think you get the situation. Before I start it would help your case to give examples to support your argument, but as you haven’t I’m going to work off what you have said. The only people that have caused poverty, desolation and segregation to the Palestinian people are themselves. No at this point you might start saying ‘but its Israel who’s keeping them back and separating them from the rest of the world.’ That’s just wrong. The Palestinians are suffering right now because they refuse to give up terrorism and recognise Israel. That is why they are under economic sanctions, that is why there is a wall between them and Israel. Until they give these things up, the peace process in the region is not going to move forward.
“Zionism is grounded on racist ideals- a better people, a better culture, a better religion”
I fail to see where Zionism says that Jews have a better culture, religion or people. Please point that out to me. You can’t, so please don’t go making it up.
“Look up the "doctrine of Discovery" on a search engine”
I looked at it and failed to see how it had anything to do with Zionism
“You're not the only ones to hold such views- after spending 1 semester looking at colonial policies of Europe in the 1600s - i am more convinced than ever that Zionism is based on racism”
The essay seemed to be based on the fact that a religion came in and enslaved or killed anybody that opposed it. Early Zionists used the UN and after the state of Israel was born encouraged Arabs to come and work with them, hence the 1.5 million Arabs in Israel now. No where did Jews claim ownership of the land. Jews bought land (unlike the Spanish who invaded) and petitioned the UN for a state alongside that of the Arabs. The Arabs rejected this and started a war in which they lost. I fail to see Zionism as the aggressor here, in actual fact it should be obvious that the only aggressors were the Arabs themselves.
“Ask lloyd george- a right wing christian, self confessed zionist, and PM of Britain in WW1, what zionism represents- he'll tell u!”
I would but he’s dead and frankly and I don’t really care what he thinks about Zionism
“Being opposed to Zionism, is the same as being opposed to racism.”
First give me a source for that. Secondly, if he was a ‘self-confessed’ Zionist, I very much doubt he would be saying that.
“Zionism also plays a role in the consumption of common resources in the middle east - like the dead sea- see the differences in consumption on the jordanian side with the israeli side.”
You really need to state a source here. As to the dead sea, I fail to see anything foul here, can’t any country use their resources anyway they want? The Israeli side of the dead sea is not the Jordanian side so what is wrong with the consumption of resources?
“Also the idea that Israel cannot accommodate the millions of palestinians outside its borders because it wants to remain jewish- thats zionism.
I am sorry, but these people left their homes out of their own free will. I don’t see how that is the fault of Israel, nor do I see any relation with Zionism. As to the second part, Israel was created to be a Jewish state, it doesn’t force people to go there, nor does it impose its will on others what is wrong with that? It’s not as if people discriminate on colour, not long ago a whole lot of Ethiopian Jews came to Israel.
“Also the idea that Palestinians must not live in bungalows on the sea front as jews do and must live in flats- thats zionist.”
How? Palestinians living in bungalows has got nothing to do with Zionism. It might however have something to do with the fact that they left their houses during ’48 out of their own free will and at the urgings of other Arab leaders.
“zionism is an evil policy to follow and has led to many jews (who i haven't seen here on BOS for months now) to regurgitate abhorrent views of their superiority over non-jews (esp arabs and muslims).”
Haha, no. There is no such thing as superiority over other people in either Judaism or Zionism. The people you probably talked to where just bad people.
“One jew on BOS publicly said to another jew (i think he was referring to me): "these are the same people who want to push us back into the sea" or something around that, both of them jews, i havent seen for a while; i think banco will remember that!”
No idea what you’re talking about…
“So the palestinians are living in slums, but didnt the jews of europe live in slums by force? (ghettos?) what happened when equality was eventually given to them?”
Relevance? Whatever, I think it is obvious what happened, they left Europe. You go to Europe now and the Jewish population is tiny compared to that of the US or Australia.
“I think you should realise that jews are not the only people who have endured suffering , moreover they should realise that they can be a cause of it as well.”
Do you think I have not realised that? Why do you assume I live in my own little world without knowing what the hell is going on in the real world? I assure you I don’t.
“You do believe in some kind of 'satan' dont you? its in you're books, well at least in genesis! just beware of him.”
I was never aware of their being a satan in Judaism and I am pretty sure there isn’t. You say there is one in Genesis? I confess I don’t know it off by heart so would you care to provide a passage. However I do know there is a satan in Christianity, just be careful you use a Jewish Bible not the Christian one because there may be differences in them.
