John Howard Or Not? (1 Viewer)

[Benny_]

Hands up lefties who actually strongly oppose liberalism?

Can you hear the silence?

I'm amazed that people would actually identify liberalist ideology as a reason for voting liberal, reall I am.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Hands up lefties who actually strongly oppose liberalism?

Can you hear the silence?

I'm amazed that people would actually identify liberalist ideology as a reason for voting liberal, reall I am.

They just place far less priority on it however.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

MoonlightSonata seems to be a libertarian, or perhaps a neo-liberal.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

MoonlightSonata seems to be a libertarian, or perhaps a neo-liberal.

Categories are always a problem

But I don't fit the extremes of Libertarianism and am certainly not neo-liberal.

For the most part, I remain content under the beliefs of a slightly tempered Liberalism

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Doesn't you gf have a problem with your sig!

Well we kinda broke up

Asqy son of blue collar workers - followed by public school and a good dose of center left yr 12 history, legal studies, economics and english teachers who loved Whitlam and his pasta ads.

You've done pretty well for yourself

I like the "it's time" theme song. Our public lecturer played it to us... it was entrenched in my head the whole semester

"It's time for freedom.... time for old folks... time for children... yes its time" lol

Plus two years at unsw arts doing globalisation courses, human rights courses, international law courses and history (of the Australian black armband variety) followed by Criminal law taught by another center lefty and public law taught by another center lefty. I also watch the ABC and SBS - it is safe to say that I'm the natural born adversary of the Liberal party. We are all creatures of our environment. My upbringing would not allow me to be a liberal party person.

Yes, that's true. I can't deny the influences my background has had. But I can see why you'd be quite disinclined to vote for the Liberal party, at least not any time soon, with this government. Those areas are obviously of importance to you, as they should be, and they haven't exactly been on the government's agenda recently.

I am quick to object though when it comes to certain wish-washy arguments in some of the crim lectures which might be classified by no better association as "leftist." Both sides embellish things, and social theorists can be no exception. I remember one of the articles said that the type of people being detained for public order offences were mainly lower class people or some such thing, and because police tended to focus on this "trivial" matter of public disorder, police custody was seen as a tool for controlling the disreputable poor!

I think some points in the crim course tend to be overstated somewhat. It's a captious attitude to attack every obviously empty piece of rhetoric politicians utter about crime. This is disproven with statistics, etc. But then more is tacked on, ie. some social theories, a few of which are a bit out there

But anyway, back to some vaguely recognisable point, liberalism is all for basic human rights, it just has wealth inequality problems. What I find annoying is the Howard government sometimes deviates from liberal principles when it really needs to stand by them

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Australia has become very American like whereby everyone focuses on the LEADER rather than the party and what it stands for.

i agree... it used to be about what the parties were doing, not who was running them. well, i guess it still is about what they are doing policy - wise, but still, the focus has kinda shifted recently to talking about "Howard" instead of "liberals" just like americans talk about "Bush" instead of "republicans" etc

 

[Rorix]

Hands up lefties who actually strongly oppose liberalism?

Can you hear the silence?

There's silence because you asked people to put their hands up.

I'm amazed that people would actually identify liberalist ideology as a reason for voting liberal, reall I am.

Well, I'm glad you're amazed. That philosophy is what the party is named after, you know.

 

[Korn]

I have nothing agaist Howard at the moment, and there isnt really any good alternatives, with the Labor Party unable to stay under one leader for very long

 

[unripe]

But anyway, back to some vaguely recognisable point, liberalism is all for basic human rights, it just has wealth inequality problems. What I find annoying is the Howard government sometimes deviates from liberal principles when it really needs to stand by them

Wealth inequality problems? Like relying on an 'invisible hand' invented by the Adam Smith man to dole out money to poorer people. Quite a big impracticality there.
Mmm, a lot of the time it seems to me like Howard has very few principles of any sort at all. Certainly not ones upholding basic human rights, when you look at refugee treatment. Or basic decency, when you review ALL the blatant, proven lies they've told in his time in office.

Korn: not only Liberal and Labor. There are more than two parties in the Aus politics.. just because the system allows them no power doesn't mean you can't support them and support is what they need to become more than just minor parties, and show more varied representation in parliament.

 

[katie_tully]

i like a little from column a and a little from column b.
personality wise i dont like howard, or members of his cabinet. but meh.

 

[Gustus]

Brown nosed Australia

personally - Im up for any prime minister that doesn't get a brown nose everytime they visit America. I think G. W Bush, is the most f*cked thing thats walking the face of the planet at the moment, and Jonny's not far behind.

 

[Rorix]

Mmm, a lot of the time it seems to me like Howard has very few principles of any sort at all.

They have policy principles. You just don't seem to agree with them.

Liberalism often do not accord with Human Rights. In particular Liberalism has issues with 2nd and 3rd generation rights.

agreedx1000. A lot of people confuse individual freedom for human rights simply because 1st generation rights tend to coorespond with liberalism and think that liberal governments aren't liberal because of policies regarding the normative 3rd generation 'rights', or that they are liberal because they affirm these 'rights'.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

John Howard's fine.

What exactly is going to happen under a Labor government that is going to appease you people? While i am sure alot of the members of the Labor government have the same beliefs as you, these are not the people who will be elected (at least not in the near future).

The main problems I heard from people about John Howard is;
- Friendly with america (Labor wants to be friendlier with america too)
- Immigration ( The only way in which labor will be different is they'll make sure all detention centres are filled with public employees)

 

[unripe]

They have policy principles. You just don't seem to agree with them.

Mmmyeah, very true.

 

[Korn]

Wealth inequality problems? Like relying on an 'invisible hand' invented by the Adam Smith man to dole out money to poorer people. Quite a big impracticality there.
Mmm, a lot of the time it seems to me like Howard has very few principles of any sort at all. Certainly not ones upholding basic human rights, when you look at refugee treatment. Or basic decency, when you review ALL the blatant, proven lies they've told in his time in office.

Korn: not only Liberal and Labor. There are more than two parties in the Aus politics.. just because the system allows them no power doesn't mean you can't support them and support is what they need to become more than just minor parties, and show more varied representation in parliament.

I actually do support some minor parties above the major ones, but they are unlikely to become government

 

[Korn]

No so many overt links with a particular religion. Costello and Howard's love for Hillsong etc etc. Totally pragmatical from a popularity POV however.

Since when has Howard and Costello announced they "love" Hillsong or even have anything to do with it?

 

[Generator]

Since when has Howard and Costello announced they "love" Hillsong or even have anything to do with it?

The relationship is far from being one shrouded in secrecy, Korn.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Hillsongs-true-believers/2004/11/06/1099547435083.html

The church is known not just for its style of Christian worship, but for its links to the burgeoning political influence of the "religious right" through politicians associated with it.

The Liberal Party's Louise Markus, a Hillsong church member, won the seat of Greenway, which had been held by Labor since it was proclaimed in 1984, with a 7.02 per cent swing. Liberal MP for Mitchell, Alan Cadman, who retained his north-western suburbs seat with a 1.09 per cent swing, and two Family First Senate candidates, Joan Woods and Ivan Herald, who failed to win Senate seats, were featured in Hillsong's latest glossy circular, with members being asked to pray for them. Prime Minister John Howard opened Hillsong's Baulkham Hills convention centre in October 2002 and Treasurer Peter Costello spoke to thousands at the SuperDome conference this year.

 

[katie_tully]

Since when has Howard and Costello announced they "love" Hillsong or even have anything to do with it?

Oh come on. Look at the key names there. Howard. Costello. They're practically kicking themselves for not coming up with the idea themselves.

 

[Korn]

The relationship is far from being one shrouded in secrecy, Korn.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Hillsongs-true-believers/2004/11/06/1099547435083.html

It doesnt mean that they are associated with Hillsong, it may have been a political campaign thing, or a way to gain more supporters for the party as there are many Hillsong members and they would look favourably on these actions of Howard and Costello.
I have read that article before, and i havent seen any other links between them, so im inclined to think that it was to gain votes at a later election or because they were asked to and it would be a good media opportunity

 

[Generator]

It doesnt mean that they are associated with Hillsong, it may have been a political campaign thing, or a way to gain more supporters for the party as there are many Hillsong members and they would look favourably on these actions of Howard and Costello

That would be a relationship with the church, would it not?